Finishing an 80 lower

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  • Tomcat

    Formerly Known As HITWTOM
    May 7, 2012
    5,273
    St.Mary's County
    Sometimes the posts I see regarding this kind of thing are borderline ridiculous. I won't go into the many ways why some of the posts above are ridiculous, but they certainly are.

    I and rog951 are relatively new to all of this. We're just trying to stay clear laws we don't understand very well.
    You've been here a long time, you're obviously a long-timer Maryland gun owner. Maybe you could offer some clarification?
    I look at this whole thread and think “ sure, let’s help the anti’s drum up some more restrictions”
     

    Bountied

    Active Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,002
    Pasadena
    Is there a good reason not to serialize the lower yourself? Like we might have done a couple years ago?

    The Harbor Freight 1/8" stamp set is ten bucks:

    They don't work well. I almost destroyed one trying to punch a number in with a hammer and those stamps. A Dremel would work better
     

    Ponder_MD

    Active Member
    Mar 9, 2020
    2,704
    Maryland
    Is there a good reason not to serialize the lower yourself? Like we might have done a couple years ago?

    The Harbor Freight 1/8" stamp set is ten bucks:

    Now that this stupid new law is in place, I don't think it's legal to do so anymore.
     

    Ponder_MD

    Active Member
    Mar 9, 2020
    2,704
    Maryland
    I look at this whole thread and think “ sure, let’s help the anti’s drum up some more restrictions”
    Come on, Chief. Do you really think the anti's are lacking in imagination and that something we say here will provide some kind of epiphany?
     

    Tomcat

    Formerly Known As HITWTOM
    May 7, 2012
    5,273
    St.Mary's County
    I dont know of any laws that say you cant borrow tools or get advice.

    Come on, Chief. Do you really think the anti's are lacking in imagination and that something we say here will provide some kind of epiphany?
    If I were an anti I’m sure I could find some way to prohibit borrowing tools. Just an example. Look at all the stuff that happened with FSA 2013. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy
     

    Bountied

    Active Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,002
    Pasadena
    If I were an anti I’m sure I could find some way to prohibit borrowing tools. Just an example. Look at all the stuff that happened with FSA 2013. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy
    HBAR loophole... basically defeated the entire purpose of FSA 2013, except I can't get an FAL, HK91, or an AUG... :(
     

    1841DNG

    Active Member
    Apr 17, 2016
    1,106
    Come on, Chief. Do you really think the anti's are lacking in imagination and that something we say here will provide some kind of epiphany?
    No but they 100% have staffers monitoring this forum or really any type of dissident message board and making reports. Most likely no one important ever bothers to get their hands dirty looking at people like us but they have minions to do so.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    12,722
    Glen Burnie
    I look at this whole thread and think “ sure, let’s help the anti’s drum up some more restrictions”
    Yep. Exactly, and that's why I didn't go into detail.

    Come on, Chief. Do you really think the anti's are lacking in imagination and that something we say here will provide some kind of epiphany?
    Left to their own devices, the anti's don't know jack shit. Carolyn McCarthy had no clue what a barrel shroud was. She thought it was "that thing at the shoulder that goes up."

    Here's the problem. We go into great detail sometimes in these threads regarding the stupidity of the myriad of gun laws on the books and the many ways they are dumb and can be circumvented. It's not a stretch at all to think that we have anti's on this board who sign up, get their 50 posts, and then hang around trying to get inside our heads for how we think and what we do.

    The first rule of 80 lower club, is that you do NOT talk about 80 lower club.
     

    jcutonilli

    Active Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,161
    @rog951 It's ok.

    Basically the answer to your question is: Yes.
    As I understand it, a lower receiver (finished or unfinished) must be serialized by next year. A couple of FFL's in the state have posted up that they will do the engraving.

    If you intend to follow this law, you do have time. You could have them serialized one or two at a time to blunt the expense. No need to post in writing what you plan to do. That's your business. :)
    I am not sure the question was asked correctly. Yes "unfinished lower receivers" do need to be serialized and registered in accordance with MD law (see Public Safety Title 5 Subtitle 7). The better question is "Are 80% receivers an 'unfinished frame or receiver' that is required to be serialized and registered?"

    The definition of "unfinished frame or receiver" in this subtitle
    Unfinished frame or receiver
    (h) “Unfinished frame or receiver” means a forged, cast, printed, extruded, or machined body or similar article that has reached a stage in manufacture where it may readily be completed, assembled, or converted to be used as the frame or receiver of a functional firearm.

    This definition seems to be consistent with the new ATF rule on frames and receivers.

    I recently read a story https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a...iver-rule-is-impacting-businesses-gun-rights/ which suggests that an 80% without a jig or finishing instructions is still not considered a firearm per the new ATF rules. This would suggest than an 80% in a similar situation may not meet the MD definition of an "unfinished frame or receiver". I have not seen anything definitive as to whether an 80% is or is not an "unfinished frame or receiver" under MD law.

    What I do know is that you have until 1 March 2023 to get any "unfinished frame or receiver" serialized and registered in MD.
     

    Ponder_MD

    Active Member
    Mar 9, 2020
    2,704
    Maryland
    @jcutonilli Thanks for that.

    It appears that if you purchase only the 80% chunk of metal with no tools, jibs, templates, etc. it is NOT a "firearm." There are photos in the link that make it more clear.

    If I understand correctly, the new Maryland law is pinned to the AFT definition. This means that Maryland residents do not need to bring unfinished hunks of metal to an FFL for serialization.

    Summary

    As stated in Final Rule 2021-05F and the regulatory text, a partially complete AR-type receiver with no indexing or machining of any kind performed in the area of the fire control cavity is not classified as a “frame or receiver” or “firearm” provided that it is not sold, distributed, or marketed with any associated templates, jigs, molds, equipment, tools, instructions, or guides, such as within a receiver parts kit. 27 CFR 478.12(c), Example 4. Consistent with Final Rule 2021R-05F and the regulatory text, ATF is providing the visual aids below to further illustrate the section of an “unfinished” item that, with further manufacture, machining, or processing, will constitute the “fire control cavity;” the second set of visual aids illustrates the stage of manufacture or machining at which that item becomes a receiver as defined in Final Rule 2021R05F.
     

    jcutonilli

    Active Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,161
    @jcutonilli Thanks for that.

    It appears that if you purchase only the 80% chunk of metal with no tools, jibs, templates, etc. it is NOT a "firearm." There are photos in the link that make it more clear.

    If I understand correctly, the new Maryland law is pinned to the AFT definition. This means that Maryland residents do not need to bring unfinished hunks of metal to an FFL for serialization.
    To be clear, the Maryland law is not really "pinned" to the ATF definition. They both use very similar wording such that the ATF interpretations of those same words could be used to justify the position that 80% receivers without any instructions, jigs, etc. do not meet the MD definition of an "unfinished frame or receiver". There is nothing mandating that MD adopt these same interpretations.

    Additionally, the presence of instructions, jigs, etc. may require serialization of the 80% receiver in MD even though no additional operations are performed on the 80% receiver.
     

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