Fake CMP Collector Grades

[Goodguy176]

Anyone happen to purchase a fake CMP Collector grade from either of these guys?

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=130475

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=34753

 

[Furious George]

Care to explain?

Looks like a bunch CMP'ers with a bad case of butt hurt.

While certainly amusing, its not worth the time to read through a dozen pages of their nonsense.

What's the story?

 

[Dave91]

Care to explain?

Looks like a bunch CMP'ers with a bad case of butt hurt.

While certainly amusing, its not worth the time to read through a dozen pages of their nonsense.

What's the story?

If you actually took the time to read it you'd see it isn't nonsense. Someone was making fake collector grade documents for pieced-together rifles.

 

[Goodguy176]

Two MD residents have been selling M1 Garands that they represented as CMP collector grades with paperwork dated from 2000 to 2002.
In the last month, 7 rifles have been verified by the CMP serial number verification service as being sold with forged Collector Grade Certificates. The documents are the white shipping docs and are all dated 2000, 2001 or 2002. As these 7 rifles were all found in a short amount of time it is believed that many more are probably out there. The two individuals frequent all the local Md and surrounding area gun shows so some might have been sold at the local shows or shooting ranges...

 

[Onwrd Farm]

If you actually took the time to read it you'd see it isn't nonsense. Someone was making fake collector grade documents for pieced-together rifles.

That's screwed up. At least it seems like you can call CMP to check numbers prior to buying.

 

[Lou45]

I received word of this a few weeks ago with a few copied examples of the faked paperwork. There's been a coupla' people's names that have been thrown my way but I'm not about to start rumors.

 

[smdub]

That's screwed up. At least it seems like you can call CMP to check numbers prior to buying.

FWIW, CMP normally charges $25 just to search for the orig certificate (and they may not find it - no refunds)
http://thecmp.org/Sales/faq.htm

 

[UpperMarlboroMan]

Interesting...

Interesting profile name you got there...

 

[Goodguy176]

Interesting profile name you got there...

Yes, it is, thanks! A tribute to one of the individuals that seems to think its ok to sell Collectable Garands with Forged CMP paperwork.

Most people would expect more from a retired Army officer with a "Stellar Record"...

 

[Norton]

Yes, it is, thanks! A tribute to one of the individuals that seems to think its ok to sell Collectable Garands with Forged CMP paperwork.

Most people would expect more from a retired Army officer with a "Stellar Record"...

and, there's the answer to my question.

Goodbye.

 

[Norton]

Misappropriating another member's username.

Gone.

 

[gabe72]

Wow,the ban hammer has fallen quickly!

 

[reverendbeer]

and, there's the answer to my question.

Goodbye.

(No homo...NTTAWWT...)

 

[Bertfish]

Wow,the ban hammer has fallen quickly!

Seriously. I'd hazard a guess that this is a record

 

[Lou45]

and, there's the answer to my question.

Goodbye.

Misappropriating another member's username.

Gone.

Hhhmmm.........just saw the real gg176 posting in another thread, differences in caps and spaces. Good catch there Norton.

Perhaps the GG176 is the culprit of the fake CMP certs???

 

[UpperMarlboroMan]

Hhhmmm.........just saw the real gg176 posting in another thread, differences in caps and spaces. Good catch there Norton.

Perhaps the GG176 is the culprit of the fake CMP certs???

It is pretty clear who the two individuals are if you wade through the CMP forums. The person that started this thread probably thought he or she was doing a service to bring this to the attention of the Maryland Garand collector community as not everyone follows the CMP Forums and are aware of these fakes.

 

[comikemike]

Please accept my apologies in advance--maybe I'm not properly caffeinated yet, but I'm having a hard time following what's going on in this thread...

I'm personally very interested b/c I have an HRA CMP Correct that I"m considering selling (not marketing actively, but I have responded privately to a couple of posts on MDS), and I've used posts from GG176 on the CMP forums as a reference for pricing. I've also thought about reaching out to GG176 directly (via CMP) to discuss the MD face to face market, but now I'm confused (an all too frequent state of mind, I'll admit).

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, and I certainly don't want to violate any forum rules (or etiquette, for that matter) but could someone enlighten me here? Specifically, why did the OP for this thread get banned and who is the real bad guy in this situation?

Thanks in advance for anything you all can provide.

 

[Rickhead]

If you actually took the time to read it you'd see it isn't nonsense. Someone was making fake collector grade documents for pieced-together rifles.

Dave91 pretty much sums it up. Lesser grade rifles being "corrected" then passed off as collector grades.

Here's how it works:
1)Take a $650 service grade, swap out some parts.
2) Print out a fake certificate.
3) Sell it for a reasonable $1200-1500.
4) Take the profit and repeat.

If you have a stock of parts, like a lot of collectors do, it's a few minute job. You can buy 10 M1's from CMP per year. Your buddy can buy 10 too, so can his buddy etc. How many fakes do you think are out there....... just 7?

 

[dist1646]

GG176 is getting a bad rap on this one. He sold some rifles with the papers as he received with them. When he found out about the fake papers, he contacted those he sold to and either refunded their money in full or offered to let them keep the rifle with a mutually agreed refund for the difference in value. How much could anyone ask for other than that. I had the opportunity to look at one of the rifles that was returned, it was in such outstanding condition that I decided to buy it myself! He even allowed me to shoot it before finally deciding. The person who returned that one should have kept it. My first 3 shot group measured .289", the second group measured .447" with one flyer caused by a heavy wind gust that opened the group to just under an inch!

 

[UpperMarlboroMan]

GG176 is getting a bad rap on this one. He sold some rifles with the papers as he received with them. When he found out about the fake papers, he contacted those he sold to and either refunded their money in full or offered to let them keep the rifle with a mutually agreed refund for the difference in value. How much could anyone ask for other than that. I had the opportunity to look at one of the rifles that was returned, it was in such outstanding condition that I decided to buy it myself! He even allowed me to shoot it before finally deciding. The person who returned that one should have kept it. My first 3 shot group measured .289", the second group measured .447" with one flyer caused by a heavy wind gust that opened the group to just under an inch!

No one said that the rifles didn't function. They are still Garands. The issue is that these rifles are being sold as "CMP Collector" rifles and they ARE NOT. The forging of the CMP documentation is fraud. It is a big deal to the community. There is quite a price difference between a true CMP-certified Collector and a run of the mill Garand that someone has swapped parts. This was a deliberate act to deceive in order to get more money. Now that everyone knows how to check if the numbers match the forged documents (how to do this is described in the CMP link), I am sure the forgers will just change the papers again and will continue to sell them.