Expungment and nics

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  • scottyfz6

    Member
    Dec 22, 2018
    466
    Okay I just helped a friend who is pretty computer illiterate get an expungment on a weed charge. He has not gotten any of the paperwork yet but the case is off the judiciary search. He is not interested in handguns, he just wants a rifle to hunt with.

    Does anyone know if or how long the nics takes to clear? I have read a few threads here about the expungment stuff, in fact its what made me look in to it for him. But I have not seen anyone talk about the nics check, just the hql.
     

    Johnconlee

    Member
    Mar 8, 2019
    986
    Mechanicsville
    I know a guy who had a domestic violence/assault charge expunged. I think he was charged but not convicted. When he applied for md w&c the trooper investigating him knew about the expunged charge.
     

    deathracer

    Member
    Feb 14, 2010
    103
    An expungement should purge all records if in fact it was a "full" expungement from the court on all counts. Although I would allow 6-8 months for all departments to record and remove. If not removed as the previous poster stated, then reach back out to the court and agency still having record and advise them and show the documentation that it was.
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    23,417
    As long as the recipient does not fall into the various forbidden categories of criminal or psychiatric exclusions, he can receive or be loaned a long gun from immediate family members, defined as:

    “IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER” MEANS A SPOUSE, A PARENT, A
    STEPPARENT, A GRANDPARENT, A STEPGRANDPARENT, AN AUNT, AN UNCLE, A
    SIBLING, A STEPSIBLING, A CHILD, A STEPCHILD, A GRANDCHILD, A
    STEPGRANDCHILD, A NIECE, OR A NEPHEW, AS RELATED BY BLOOD OR MARRIAGE.

    Presumably he is not at present addicted to, or a habitual user of, a controlled substance.
     

    Name Taken

    Active Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,874
    Central
    "weed charge" unless it was possession with intent or distributing, would not cause a NICS fail. If he had several, it could trigger the habitual user, but a single charge would not.
     

    Name Taken

    Active Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,874
    Central
    I know a guy who had a domestic violence/assault charge expunged. I think he was charged but not convicted. When he applied for md w&c the trooper investigating him knew about the expunged charge.

    The police are allowed the maintain their records, with limitations. The expungement is for the courts.

    Rather the police should hold it against someone...that's a different story. But they can certainly be aware of it in most cases.
     

    scottyfz6

    Member
    Dec 22, 2018
    466
    "weed charge" unless it was possession with intent or distributing, would not cause a NICS fail. If he had several, it could trigger the habitual user, but a single charge would not.

    At this point I dont remember what the exact charge was, but it was like 12-15 years ago, and was a max of 2 years iirc. I know a lot of the laws changed when it came to weed stuff over the last few years. He may not be prohibited now due to those changes.
     

    Mark392001

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 18, 2009
    7,363
    Glen Burnie, MD
    An expungement should purge all records if in fact it was a "full" expungement from the court on all counts. Although I would allow 6-8 months for all departments to record and remove. If not removed as the previous poster stated, then reach back out to the court and agency still having record and advise them and show the documentation that it was.

    An expungement takes time, and the person granted receives copies of the certification from every department that had a record when it is done properly. If he was just not convicted but truly not expunged it would remain a searchable record but irrelevant to decision making process.
     

    Johnconlee

    Member
    Mar 8, 2019
    986
    Mechanicsville
    The police are allowed the maintain their records, with limitations. The expungement is for the courts.

    Rather the police should hold it against someone...that's a different story. But they can certainly be aware of it in most cases.

    He was surprised they knew. I was surprised they admitted knowing. I’m not sure if he got the permit. Last I heard they were calling references.
     

    TheBert

    The Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2013
    6,195
    Gaithersburg, Maryland
    I know a guy who had a domestic violence/assault charge expunged. I think he was charged but not convicted. When he applied for md w&c the trooper investigating him knew about the expunged charge.

    The government, at all levels, does not destroy data. They may remove it from public view by numerous methods but, they never destroy the data they have.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,030
    The government, at all levels, does not destroy data. They may remove it from public view by numerous methods but, they never destroy the data they have.

    Our agency “destroys” data in many cases. Just depends on the process and what it is. Usually it’s still in a database, just marked as an old record so it would only be available if you made a detailed and specific database search for one of the few developers or auditors who had direct database access. Not available using one of our various internal or external applications. For all intents and purposes other than an OIG audit or forensics reconstruction of something no one would be the wiser and 99.99% of agency personnel would never be able to access it.

    But I can think of a number of instances where when a technician hits “Y” to delete some record or make some change to a record where it is a true delete. No versioning a field or record in the database. It’s gone other than the tape backups that’ll get over written in a few weeks.

    Which can be a problem sometimes when the proper process is to remove a record from a person and not delete the record. That way it makes it easier to “claim” the record later if the true owner of the data is made know or shows up to claim it. It is a lot easier if we have the record, just orphaned, rather than needing to recreate it (burden of proof ends up being lower as it is easier to match to data we have. Rather than not having the data at all).

    But legacy IT applications that haven’t been modernized yet and all that.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    17,163
    Socialist State of Maryland
    The government, at all levels, does not destroy data. They may remove it from public view by numerous methods but, they never destroy the data they have.

    That's not the whole truth and nothing but the truth. :D

    The fact is, there have been laws passed and orders issued that require destroying data that the government has obtained in the course of doing what government does. I remember well being trained "not to keep" any investigative data outside of the official record. The reason for this is that laws require material to be purged and, if the government does not destroy all the data, someone may come along and sue them and win millions of dollars.

    More times than I can remember, a lawyer for some party got a court order for us to turn over any and all material relating to such and such. It wouldn't go over too well for someone to come up with a file when the file was supposedly destroyed some years ago. ;)
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,030
    That's not the whole truth and nothing but the truth. :D

    The fact is, there have been laws passed and orders issued that require destroying data that the government has obtained in the course of doing what government does. I remember well being trained "not to keep" any investigative data outside of the official record. The reason for this is that laws require material to be purged and, if the government does not destroy all the data, someone may come along and sue them and win millions of dollars.

    More times than I can remember, a lawyer for some party got a court order for us to turn over any and all material relating to such and such. It wouldn't go over too well for someone to come up with a file when the file was supposedly destroyed some years ago. ;)

    Absolutely. And of course sometimes for more nefarious reasons, you don’t want a record of something turning up…

    And just for general reasons like records retention reasons. If there is a retention date, it must be transferred to the national archives or be destroyed, as appropriate, by that date. Generally things that are considered necessary for legitimate ongoing or future business needs (IE, the military doesn’t expunge your service record 7 years after to muster out). FBI isn’t going to destroy a cold case file. Etc.

    But does an agency need a scanned copy of a document you gave to them 5 years ago? Probably not. The electronic data from it is likely enough. Not the document or image of the document itself. Or maybe it was a request to remove some data on a record. A lot of times a record of the deletion will be kept. But the deleted data itself isn’t (often) and even the government form used to request it and possible evidence to support the request isn’t likely to be kept past acting on the request (past a possible short retention date).
     

    scottyfz6

    Member
    Dec 22, 2018
    466
    Well he has received the court order for the expungment, so if he was interested in getting his HQL he could. But again he wants a rifle for hunting, I told him to wait until he gets the cjis notice of compliance or what ever it is called before he tries to buy a rifle.

    As for the if they save the records, if you read into the law it says in 3 years the records are shredded. read page 15 https://mdcourts.gov/sites/default/files/court-forms/ccdccr072br.pdf
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Active Member
    Oct 24, 2017
    2,491
    Timonium-Lutherville
    So long as the records are updated and noted as expunged, it does not matter if copies of these records exist or where. With a processed expungement, it is no longer a conviction and so would not impact a NICS denial of any kind.

    I suggest this person keep copies of his records with the expungement stamps/seal on it for life, in the unlikely event that they may have to prove it was truly expunged.

    Also, there are services that you can pay for to run a comprehensive background check on you. That might be where I start.
     

    scottyfz6

    Member
    Dec 22, 2018
    466
    So long as the records are updated and noted as expunged, it does not matter if copies of these records exist or where. With a processed expungement, it is no longer a conviction and so would not impact a NICS denial of any kind.

    I suggest this person keep copies of his records with the expungement stamps/seal on it for life, in the unlikely event that they may have to prove it was truly expunged.

    Also, there are services that you can pay for to run a comprehensive background check on you. That might be where I start.

    But the real question is hong long does it take for ncis to be updated once the expungment goes thru?

    I told him to make copies, scan and email it to himself etc so he always has a copy somewhere no matter what happens. He said he will make copies and get his kids to scan it, as he does not know how to even print or scan from a computer. As I said in the op he is computer alliterate.
     

    King of COD

    Junior Member
    Jul 24, 2022
    86
    Baltimore
    But the real question is hong long does it take for ncis to be updated once the expungment goes thru?

    I told him to make copies, scan and email it to himself etc so he always has a copy somewhere no matter what happens. He said he will make copies and get his kids to scan it, as he does not know how to even print or scan from a computer. As I said in the op he is computer alliterate.
    That’s a good question …do u know btw??
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,122
    That’s a good question …do u know btw??
    It depends on the state and how often they upload/correct records sent to NICS.
    In Maryland the agency that sends info to NICS is the Department of Public Safety and Corrections, the same agency that maintains the various state level LE related databases. So then it would depend on how long it takes the courts to transmit the expungemnt to DPSC and then for DPSC to transmit that to NICS.
     

    King of COD

    Junior Member
    Jul 24, 2022
    86
    Baltimore
    It depends on the state and how often they upload/correct records sent to NICS.
    In Maryland the agency that sends info to NICS is the Department of Public Safety and Corrections, the same agency that maintains the various state level LE related databases. So then it would depend on how long it takes the courts to transmit the expungemnt to DPSC and then for DPSC to transmit that to NICS.
    O ok understood…I’m in bmore …just hoping it would be in system before 30 days ..I’m thinking it take at least a week for them to see u even filed for expungement
     

    Smashu

    Junior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 1, 2019
    33
    Nics should be instant
     

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