Enfield P14 mystery...help?

[The Saint]

Cast the camber! The receiver is for a P14.

The front sight has 14 on one side and 090 on the other side of the blade on top...are sights serialized?

It does not chamber a .303 dummy round at all, the extractor will not grab the rim; it is WAY too tight. It grabs a 30-06 and chambers it flawlessly and perfect extraction and kicks em out.

Bore is a 5 land/groove left hand twist and mics out to about .307-308

 

[The Saint]

Nope! Receiver has the * mark. Rifle was modified for the lengthened locking lug. Was done after it left the States. An that rifle is oil blackened, not done at the factory. Then look at the lines, they are rounded, look at the picture of the ERA I posted.

Judging by other pictures...I really don't think the mark on the receiver is a *...it looks more like just a blemish or a chunk of oxidation...as it stands proud, not indented in the receiver to me. The oil is from me cleaning the gun, it was dry as a bone when I bought it in.

Box mag and follower are also 100% for the 30-06.

 

[Doco Overboard]

A 3006 extractor is wide and similar to a German Mauser or Springfield. The claw is as wide as the width of the rest of the spring. It measures approx.400
A 303 extractor hook is only about half the width of the extractor and has knife edge on the front that gets ramped out of the way of the rim when the bolt is closed. Its about .275"
A 3006 remains captured by the claw when the bolt is closed.
A 303 has a shorter mag box, slightly differing bottom metal and the barrel tenon is flat and a spacer
A 3006 has a coned breech just like a 1903. the tenon is .800 the P14 is .720
Both rifles barrels have square threads 10 tpi.
Bolts are interchangeable between the two rifle bodies dependent what type of barrel is breached up to it. Bolt face of the 303 obviously is larger so it can accommodate the rim.
Extractor shapes differ and will not interchange due to better rimmed cartridge design as well as other small ancillary parts for managing the cartridges.
The flat breech of the Weedon p14 rifles has an S shaped recess milled into it to accept the lengthened bolt lug.
Barrel reinforce/exterior is roughly 1.325 for both the 303 and 06 barrels.
Your rifles sight leaf appears to be ground on backside as does the OD of the barrel which should be as best I can tell from the pictures the same diameter as the front ring.
In order to fit a 06 box mag to a P14 stock, the wood needs relieved internally to accommodate the longer 06 box, the wood needs to be relieved at the rear exterior corners also. Sometimes but not always, the tapered radius at the front of the reinforce bottom needs opened up dependent on manufacture and barrel diameter.

 

[303_enfield]

Again, you need to cast the chamber. I have a P14 that was rechambered to 308 Norma Mag and is not marked.
If it has been rebarreled, who knows when or what or by whom.

Nomatter what, the rifle is semi rare. Pre '68 import reworked in India. Too bad the id disk didn't have unit markings.

Now, if you decide you don't want the stock and volley sights or the rifle. Well, I'd give it a good home.

Now, for the people that take keep saying it's a Model of 1917 rifle. The receivers, except early Winchester marked U.S. over a W over serial xxx, are marked Model of 1917 over makers name WINCHESTER, REMINGTON or EDDYSTONE over serial xxxxx. It's a Pattern 14 (1914 aka Rifle, No.3 Mk I/I*)

See what happens when you buy old rifles. Now, you want to know everything about it. What Countries used it, what units, how it got to the US...

Good luck!

 

[The Saint]

Have now put this rifle in person into 2 other experts hands with over 70 years of military surplus collecting between them; and both came back, unguided, with the same answer. It is chambered 100% for 30-06 and nothing else. They 100% discounted it being Indian; as there are no Indian marks anywhere on this gun; and told me it has not been refinished, either. They both told me it is likely a transitional or experimental workup to a M1917 that was trialed and walked out from APG one way or another...and out of the collection it came from (a long-since-deceased WW1 vet originally had this and a few other guns, his son was a WW2 vet, got them and recently died a few years back...and the grandson brought them to me, where I bought them in...latest gun in the collection was an Arisaka T38 Trainer the WW2 son brought home, rest were at latest 1917) it makes a ton of sense. One offered me $1500 for the rifle; which I turned down. I may just keep it in the shop as a personal piece.

 

[Clovis]

Have now put this rifle in person into 2 other experts hands with over 70 years of military surplus collecting between them; and both came back, unguided, with the same answer. It is chambered 100% for 30-06 and nothing else. They 100% discounted it being Indian; as there are no Indian marks anywhere on this gun; and told me it has not been refinished, either. They both told me it is likely a transitional or experimental workup to a M1917 that was trialed and walked out from APG one way or another...and out of the collection it came from (a long-since-deceased WW1 vet originally had this and a few other guns, his son was a WW2 vet, got them and recently died a few years back...and the grandson brought them to me, where I bought them in...latest gun in the collection was an Arisaka T38 Trainer the WW2 son brought home, rest were at latest 1917) it makes a ton of sense. One offered me $1500 for the rifle; which I turned down. I may just keep it in the shop as a personal piece.

Was hoping this would pop back up. I was speculating this was put together at Eddystone and ended up being kept at the plant by an executive there as an example of what could be done if there were a shortage of required parts. Thus no stamps of military types or serial# as it was never intended to leave.

 

[The Saint]

Was hoping this would pop back up. I was speculating this was put together at Eddystone and ended up being kept at the plant by an executive there as an example of what could be done if there were a shortage of required parts. Thus no stamps of military types or serial# as it was never intended to leave.

On suggestion from Bertfish, I reached out to the Ordnance Museum to see if the curator can tell me anything else. I can tell you one thing, though...it's certainly "something."

 

[BFMIN]

Rule 1: "Buy the rifle, Not the story"!
A Thuddy-ought six Pattern 13 or 14 is an M1917, A fwee-oh-fwee Bwitish M1917 is a P13 or P-14.
Anything else is some kind of mod or other. The question is what sort of mod? Done by whom when & where for what purpose

 

[Art3]

Have now put this rifle in person into 2 other experts hands with over 70 years of military surplus collecting between them; and both came back, unguided, with the same answer. It is chambered 100% for 30-06 and nothing else. They 100% discounted it being Indian; as there are no Indian marks anywhere on this gun; and told me it has not been refinished, either. They both told me it is likely a transitional or experimental workup to a M1917 that was trialed and walked out from APG one way or another...and out of the collection it came from (a long-since-deceased WW1 vet originally had this and a few other guns, his son was a WW2 vet, got them and recently died a few years back...and the grandson brought them to me, where I bought them in...latest gun in the collection was an Arisaka T38 Trainer the WW2 son brought home, rest were at latest 1917) it makes a ton of sense. One offered me $1500 for the rifle; which I turned down. I may just keep it in the shop as a personal piece.

That's pretty cool...but it means the graduations on your sights and volley sights are going to be off

I really hope you learn (and share!) more.

 

[The Saint]

Rule 1: "Buy the rifle, Not the story"!
A Thuddy-ought six Pattern 13 or 14 is an M1917, A fwee-oh-fwee Bwitish M1917 is a P13 or P-14.
Anything else is some kind of mod or other. The question is what sort of mod? Done by whom when & where for what purpose

There are always unique examples of how one pattern became another; it does not happen out of thin air. Trials and development of old system to become new systems always happened, and transitional/experimental weapons have always been around as long as firearms have been. I can never say for sure that this is what I have...but what I can tell you, is that if it wasn't built this way...it's the best conversion gunsmithing I've ever seen. I would ride on that it was intentionally done up in 30-06, and that would be a real good reason why there's no serials...experimental.

 

[The Saint]

This rifle sold today for $2500...it's going to a gentleman with a very prestigious military collection. Knew it was something special the second I starting looking deep into it.