Disposition of Unfinished 80%s post 3/1/23?

[teratos]

You will either let a tyrannical government come and take them or you won't. It's that simple.

This.

In this case, the government has no clue who has what. They want you to tell them. If you don’t tell them, they still don’t know.

 

[pcfixer]

Egg Zakery...

 

[My Toy]

This.

In this case, the government has no clue who has what. They want you to tell them. If you don’t tell them, they still don’t know.

This is exactly right. In fact the "Ghost Gun" law that takes full effect on 3/1/23 as well as the recently passed law making it mandatory that 2nd hand purchases of long gun are completely unenforceable unless 1. Out of guilt or you completely lost your marbles you went to the authorities and said look I did this please punish me -- or 2. You are really an unlucky SOB and the authorities stumbled over your finished or unfinished 80% or friend turned enemy knew of a "transgression" involving the sale of a long gun (or undercover sting operation by authorities) and ratted you out.

I am surprised as hell with the comments about being a lemming, prison bitch, servant to the king, etc. with respect to the idea about moving any finished or unfinished un-serialized 80%s to a friendly state (if you have the capacity to do that) as opposed to squirreling them away until we finally are given a favorable court ruling that allows those that squirreled them away or moved them temporarily to a friendly state to bring them out in the public realm without fear of prosecution.

So honestly I thought I would get some constructive comments on the legality of the proposition I put forth in my OP as opposed to the many chest thumping posts about how they are more of and 2A supporter than me. So now I'm waiting for the follow up posts questioning: If your such a 2A supporter where have you been on Monday nights in Annapolis or other straw questions to show that one person is a stronger 2A supporter than another? In past years (I mean long ago) I was involved with the MD and DC Rifle and Pistol Assoc. before it became the Maryland State Rifle and Pistol Assoc. (yes that long ago) and was very involved in legislation and testified many times before the MGA. In fact one year my brother and I met with Tom Hickman the then Carroll County States Attorney and persuaded him to testify against that year's "assault weapon legislation" which was rolling to passage. His appearance before the MGA was kept close to the vest and was like a shot out of the dark to have a top law enforcement Official (which had not happen in any recent history) to actually appear for our side. The AW legislation that year went down to defeat and largely attributed to Hickman's powerful testimony saying he needs lawful gun owner on his side and not separated by decisive laws.

I have not been physically active in support of 2A in the last many year and some members of this Board probably have an idea why. But believe me I have been very involved in other ways and my support of 2A is steadfast. I hate to say this but I think a lot of the comments to my OP are another example of MD gun owners eating their own which I see all to often here. It should stop.

 

[Boxcab]

So, early Jan (6 to 10) the Motion for preliminary injunction was filed and replies submitted. [Edit to clarify this is for the MD case]

In a week or two or three... we should have a ruling. Hopefully a positive one to delay the March 1st inactment of the law.

This should help to influence those who have not paid to have their PMF defaced as of yet.



.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[cantstop]

This.

In this case, the government has no clue who has what. They want you to tell them. If you don’t tell them, they still don’t know.

I'm not sure this is completely true. IIRC: The ATF raided Optics Planet and Polymer 80 seizing their books with sales and customer records. I purchased items from both of those places and I'm sure they had a record of those sales.

OTOH: The ATF probably isn't going to share this data with the MSP just because they don't have to. So you could be right.

 

[Tungsten]

You will either let a tyrannical government come and take them or you won't. It's that simple.

Resistance on an individual level rarely works well. How many of us are willing to engage in mass protests if someone is arrested for non-compliance? Hell, we have a large contingent on this very site that would hand down a guilty verdict from the jury box if given the chance.

 

[owldo]

this is abundantly clear.

Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of tyrannical government.

“By the way I call it "moral obedience" rather than "civil disobedience" because it is God's law". Those who try to promote un-natural laws on us are committing moral disobedience. It is our duty to resist immoral laws and actions.” By Richard Fry.

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security" :-: Thomas Jefferson

"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty."

 

[teratos]

I'm not sure this is completely true. IIRC: The ATF raided Optics Planet and Polymer 80 seizing their books with sales and customer records. I purchased items from both of those places and I'm sure they had a record of those sales.

OTOH: The ATF probably isn't going to share this data with the MSP just because they don't have to. So you could be right.

Can you prove I still have a paperweight?
What if I paid cash as gun shows?
What if I gave them away as gifts?

 

[AssMan]

Just like the brace thing...best to just ignore it and live your life.

 

[wpage]

On the anniversary of the Waco slaughter of children and citizens ,or thinking of other injustice, at Ruby Ridge by ATF and other Gov agencies. Why run risk of being another abused citizen denied of your 2nd amendment rights by falling into a trap...

 

[Boxcab]

Can you prove I still have a paperweight?
What if I paid cash as gun shows?
What if I gave them away as gifts?

I hear they sell well at garage sales, being such unique trinkets!

"Not sure who bought them, but she said they would make nice pencil holders for her school children once she had drilled some holes in them."





.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[pcfixer]

Rule #1. Miranda rights include two basic rights:
the right to remain silent and the right to have an attorney present during interrogation.

Oh. STFU about purchase or possession. SMH.

 

[boatbod]

Long ago I posted something on a boating forum about a running my boat aground. Most unepectedly that information came up for discussion more than 10 years later when I was selling said vessel. The experience taught me a life lesson; things posted on the internet live forever.

 

[[Kev308]]

I'm not sure this is completely true. IIRC: The ATF raided Optics Planet and Polymer 80 seizing their books with sales and customer records. I purchased items from both of those places and I'm sure they had a record of those sales.

OTOH: The ATF probably isn't going to share this data with the MSP just because they don't have to. So you could be right.

This

If you bought it online they (can) know, and they will use that info when it's convenient for them.

 

[FrankZ]

Long ago I posted something on a boating forum about a running my boat aground. Most unepectedly that information came up for discussion more than 10 years later when I was selling said vessel. The experience taught me a life lesson; things posted on the internet live forever.

If you sail the Chesapeake it isn't if you will go aground its when.

 

[Soloveno64]

To each his own I suppose. If your desire to remain "law abiding" is stronger than your desire to actually fight back then by all means jump through the hoops and beg the crown...Just don't come crying when they change the rules and take away your rights anyway. Ultimately that IS what will happen. The more we comply the more they infringe...because they know you will comply...

While I do not own any guns of any kind I say screw them they can get a warrant and come take them bullets first. Theoretically speaking since i own no guns

 

[Docster]

I just wonder where all those "I will not comply" folks have gone to?

 

[teratos]

I just wonder where all those "I will not comply" folks have gone to?

They STFU?

 

[mauser58]

You can have them serialized unfinished if you want to...but seriously, we (i include myself in this) need to stop being lemmings.

Right on!

 

[jcutonilli]

If I understand the Federal (ATF) Rule on 80% lowers correctly in most States one may possess an un-serialized lower receiver and need not have it serialized unless it is completed in to a firearm. In Maryland however the ruling elite bans possession of any un-serialized lowers completed or not after the above referenced date; with stiff penalties for non-compliance. Like an obedient subject I've had all of my completed 80%s serialized. Hopefully the Courts will overturn the ATF Rule in the not to distant future. A challenge to MD's law may be a long way off. So in the interim: what to do with the unfinished 80%s you may still own? You could hide them, bury them in the back yard, sell them to an FFL, etc. I for one will not be in possession of any unfinished un-serialized lowers after 3/1/23 -- the extreme penalty is not worth the risk. So what is the legality of transporting them out of state to a state that doesn't have any state restrictions (only the Federal B.S. to worry about). So I would be interested if someone who is versed in the laws of MD and other adjoining states would find this a legal way to preserve your property until the MD law is overturned or you may relocate to a more friendly state in the future?

I think you are misunderstanding the new ATF rule as well as MD law on the issue.

The atf has issued at least two open letters regarding what is covered by the new rule (2021-05F)

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-september-2022-impact-final-rule-2021-05f-partially-complete-ar/download

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-dec2022-open-letter-impact-final-rule-2021-05f/download

Under the ATF rules certain unfinished receivers are required to be serialized, while others are not. The AR receivers are covered by the first open letter and may or may not be required to be serialized depending on circumstances.

MD law uses very similar wording to the ATF rule with regard to what is required to be serialized. I have not seen any further clarification of the MD law. It would seem that MD law and the new ATF rule are more similar than you make them out to be.