Discrete, effective upgrade for M1 Garand

[Ponder_MD]

I stumbled upon a pretty old Garand Thumb video yesterday. It was a review of a micro red dot mount for the M1, M1A and I think the M14.
Before anyone starts screaming about the Bubba-fication of beautiful historic pieces, the mount simply replaces the rear sight. It is NOT permanent and can be swapped back and forth in just minutes.

At first glance I was very "meh" on the idea until he demonstrated how the front sight effectively obscures your target at 300m but the micro red dot is only 3.5 MOA at 300m. This sold me on the product. This is just the mount; you need to select a compatible micro red dot to put on it. https://www.hopcousa.com/

 

[Park ranger]

WTFN. I wouldn't do it to my only garand but if you wanted a fun pinker.

Down sides: not easy to adjust zeros. 100 yards and 300 yards are very different zero. Not easy to adjust for wind drift. I'm curious about parallax at rifle distance.

Upside, quick, modern , cool to bring out a powerful round. A shake awake dot sight be a sweet rural HD gun.

Was the link to buy in the video?

 

[willtill]

HS02 | Hopco USA

Compatible with the Trijicon RMR.

www.hopcousa.com

And a screenshot from that video. They do say (in that video) that the ejecting brass can contact the Red Dot sight, but appears to be negligible for damaging impact.

 

[ken792]

There’s also this to mount a PA MicroPrism or a Trijicon Mini ACOG to the Garand rear sight ears.

M1 / M14 MicroPrism Mount

Simple MicroPrism(Mini-ACOG) mount for M1 Garand and M14 receivers.

cogburnarsenal.com

 

[Doco Overboard]

Looks like a decent system and could be fun but theirs no way I would remove the rear sights from any of my Garands unless there was something wrong with them.
Now if I wanted to experiment with a non GI rifle like a tanker/cast rifle or sported version something like that could work out for those that are interested.
Someone had an optic mount for a Krag that was appealing to me at one time but only for a sporter/utility gun just the same.
It was forward mounted and in a scout configuration.
I think maybe on one of those socom or short M1a's would be better suited.

 

[Boxcab]

I picked up a barreled action ($150ish) back when they were last available from CMP. I put it in a composite stock ($60ish), but I have never fired it. It might be a good candidate for this mod.


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Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[Jim12]

Blasphemy!

 

[willtill]

Sacrilege!

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Windows work!

Except for bad eyes.

Except for bad WX.

Except when your battery shuts the bed.

I think it’s cool as hell. Appreciate OP posting same.

Not for me or my trusty battle rifle.

 

[ChannelCat]

Not for me. I would do this on a modern rifle or handgun, but not a Garand.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Except when your battery shuts the bed.

I wondered about this. I looked up the Primary Arms micro red dot that fits on this mount and it had some absurd battery life like 25,000 hours. Even if it's 1/4 of that in reality, that's a long time.

Neither of my Garands are historic or "correct." They've both been given new furniture and new Criterion barrels. They're shooters not artifacts. I understand the reluctance to modify or deface an M1 but this is so minor and reversable that I figure "Why not?" I have a Charlie Maloney match rifle and a CMP shooter. I'm going to put it on the shooter and see how I like it.

 

[ken792]

I wondered about this. I looked up the Primary Arms micro red dot that fits on this mount and it had some absurd battery life like 25,000 hours. Even if it's 1/4 of that in reality, that's a long time.

Neither of my Garands are historic or "correct." They've both been given new furniture and new Criterion barrels. They're shooters not artifacts. I understand the reluctance to modify or deface an M1 but this is so minor and reversable that I figure "Why not?" I have a Charlie Maloney match rifle and a CMP shooter. I'm going to put it on the shooter and see how I like it.

Holosun has RMR footprint optics with solar powered backup storing a few hours of use in a capacitor and a side battery tray so you don’t need to dismount the optic to change the battery. They’re durable, but not as durable as the RMR with its protective horns. Though, if you manage to drop your M1 on a Holosun hard enough to break it, a similar drop will also cause problems with irons.

The Primary Arms Microprisms has an etched reticle, so it continues to work without battery powered illumination. The Trijicon Mini-ACOGs also have an etched reticle, but have Illumination by sunlight on a fiber optic cable in daytime and tritium at night.

 

[mawkie]

Have to assume this would also drop onto a M1A. Might be interesting. Thanks for posting!

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

I wondered about this. I looked up the Primary Arms micro red dot that fits on this mount and it had some absurd battery life like 25,000 hours. Even if it's 1/4 of that in reality, that's a long time.

Neither of my Garands are historic or "correct." They've both been given new furniture and new Criterion barrels. They're shooters not artifacts. I understand the reluctance to modify or deface an M1 but this is so minor and reversable that I figure "Why not?" I have a Charlie Maloney match rifle and a CMP shooter. I'm going to put it on the shooter and see how I like it.

Give it a go and let us know!

 

[Straightbolt]

I only wonder how long before that RMR shits the bed getting pounded by the spent brass.

 

[Ponder_MD]

I only wonder how long before that RMR shits the bed getting pounded by the spent brass.

I've observed that not all M1's eject their brass along the same path. There are various reasons for this that you can read up on.
I have a million firearms projects I'm trying to get into. I'm going to do this one as soon as time and money allow but even when I do, I'm not sure that I'll fire enough rounds to cause the kind of damage you're wondering about.

 

[Hibs]

Windows work!

Except for bad eyes.

Except for bad WX.

Except when your battery shuts the bed.

I think it’s cool as hell. Appreciate OP posting same.

Not for me or my trusty battle rifle.

Bad eyes is even more reason to run a red dot.

Holosun makes a whole line of optics with side mount batter trays. It's a 30 second process to swap the battery. OHH and they make solar models too. I personally have them and they work great. So your arguments are kind of mute.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

So HIBS, I ain’t gonna argue. It’s not an argument. It’s what I’ve seen and heard from firsthand sources.

But I will say I was there when, in training, the fella beside me was on fire using his window. He hit every thing. Every time. Then the rain came and the temp changed and everybody enjoyed mud. Folks with glasses got them foggy. The window didn’t fare well. The window shooter confessed “this” was his anticipated nightmare. He was glad that the training situation went the way it did. He really struggled once the glass didn’t/couldn’t perform as advertised. MDS brother Trevor was the trainer. It was at a small informal “range” behind a gunshop in MD.

As for bad eyes, I have heard from more than one source. The acquisition of the dot is really good for folks with normal eyes and some with eyes that are less than perfect. Not all vision types are successful with the dot and more than a couple have tried them, not been able to leverage the benefits they anticipated and subsequently sold them. Maybe those fellas are full of shit. Maybe not. As somebody who’s enjoyed severe astigmatism, Lasek, trifocals and aging eyes, I can see where some vision challenged folks have issue with some optics. Or others not.

FTR, I’ve not shifted to a window on any of my own guns (well maybe one…that I have yet to use). I have used them on other folks guns. I can see why folks like them. I ain’t a hater. Nor am I an expert by any means. I do favor irons BECAUSE I’M USED TO THEM.

I offer the above Hibs because I've appreciated your other MDS posts/offerings and value your opinion. OTOH, I didn’t just toss out some errant thought or wish or opinion that had no basis.

 

[ken792]

So HIBS, I ain’t gonna argue. It’s not an argument. It’s what I’ve seen and heard from firsthand sources.

But I will say I was there when, in training, the fella beside me was on fire using his window. He hit every thing. Every time. Then the rain came and the temp changed and everybody enjoyed mud. Folks with glasses got them foggy. The window didn’t fare well. The window shooter confessed “this” was his anticipated nightmare. He was glad that the training situation went the way it did. He really struggled once the glass didn’t/couldn’t perform as advertised. MDS brother Trevor was the trainer. It was at a small informal “range” behind a gunshop in MD.

As for bad eyes, I have heard from more than one source. The acquisition of the dot is really good for folks with normal eyes and some with eyes that are less than perfect. Not all vision types are successful with the dot and more than a couple have tried them, not been able to leverage the benefits they anticipated and subsequently sold them. Maybe those fellas are full of shit. Maybe not. As somebody who’s enjoyed severe astigmatism, Lasek, trifocals and aging eyes, I can see where some vision challenged folks have issue with some optics. Or others not.

FTR, I’ve not shifted to a window on any of my own guns (well maybe one…that I have yet to use). I have used them on other folks guns. I can see why folks like them. I ain’t a hater. Nor am I an expert by any means. I do favor irons BECAUSE I’M USED TO THEM.

I offer the above Hibs because I've appreciated your other MDS posts/offerings and value your opinion. OTOH, I didn’t just toss out some errant thought or wish or opinion that had no basis.

That is the downside of open emitter optics. Enclosed emitter optics like the Aimpoint ACRO P-2, Steiner MPS, or Holosun 509T are much more environment and pollution resistant. The P-2 has a flat sacrificial lens on the front, so you can very easily wipe away fog, rain water, or mud.

Pistol shooters are increasingly switching to the enclosed emitter micro optics and AR shooters are using them too as backups or close range pairings. I’m sure someone will make a micro rail footprint mount for the Garand eventually.

 

[Hibs]

So HIBS, I ain’t gonna argue. It’s not an argument. It’s what I’ve seen and heard from firsthand sources.

But I will say I was there when, in training, the fella beside me was on fire using his window. He hit every thing. Every time. Then the rain came and the temp changed and everybody enjoyed mud. Folks with glasses got them foggy. The window didn’t fare well. The window shooter confessed “this” was his anticipated nightmare. He was glad that the training situation went the way it did. He really struggled once the glass didn’t/couldn’t perform as advertised. MDS brother Trevor was the trainer. It was at a small informal “range” behind a gunshop in MD.

As for bad eyes, I have heard from more than one source. The acquisition of the dot is really good for folks with normal eyes and some with eyes that are less than perfect. Not all vision types are successful with the dot and more than a couple have tried them, not been able to leverage the benefits they anticipated and subsequently sold them. Maybe those fellas are full of shit. Maybe not. As somebody who’s enjoyed severe astigmatism, Lasek, trifocals and aging eyes, I can see where some vision challenged folks have issue with some optics. Or others not.

FTR, I’ve not shifted to a window on any of my own guns (well maybe one…that I have yet to use). I have used them on other folks guns. I can see why folks like them. I ain’t a hater. Nor am I an expert by any means. I do favor irons BECAUSE I’M USED TO THEM.

I offer the above Hibs because I've appreciated your other MDS posts/offerings and value your opinion. OTOH, I didn’t just toss out some errant thought or wish or opinion that had no basis.

Understood. And yes there is merit to all things you mention. Technology of the red dots continues to improve them and make them affordable. As ken just mentioned, closed emitters protect against the weather aspect, and quality units are being made by a number of companies with affordable options coming from Holosun as an example.

I suffer from an astigmatism as well. At first I was reluctant, and even balked at the idea of a red dot the first time I held one up and saw a starburst. But over time, i realized that I'm a better shot even with a "starbursting" dot then I am with iron sites.

I have 5-6 different red dots from the Holosun line on both pistols and rifles. I welcome you to come try them any time you'd like. I suspect you may see an advantage. Or maybe it just concretes your preferred method of using irons.