Data analysis of 1800 Shootings by Caliber

[Afrikeber]

Dirty Harry would approve.

 

[ToolAA]

As Biggfoot44 pointed out, this is a secondary analysis of the Eleflitz data. I think a lot of the questions being asked in this thread are discussed by the original author:

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

Written by: Greg Ellifritz I've been interested in firearm stopping power for a very long time. I remember reading Handguns magazine back in the late 1980s when Evan Marshall was writing articles about

www.activeresponsetraining.net

Thank you and Bigfoot44 for identifying the source for the original data and linking that previous article. It’s a great read. It really helped to put my OP into perspective.


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[lazarus]

Dirty Harry would approve.

According to the data, no he wouldn't. He would have used a .357 if he wanted to be REALLY effective. Discussed up thread on what the original author had said, there are flaws in the data collection. But I can't conceive of a world where a .357 is more effective than a .44 magnum, unless it's a world where people only get shot in the foot with the 44.

 

[Biggfoot44]

According to the data, no he wouldn't. He would have used a .357 if he wanted to be REALLY effective. Discussed up thread on what the original author had said, there are flaws in the data collection. But I can't conceive of a world where a .357 is more effective than a .44 magnum, unless it's a world where people only get shot in the foot with the 44.

Counterintuitive perhaps , but indeed so . It has to do with bullet performance , and bullet design parameters .

.357 Mag defensive/ duty ammo , in the sterotypical 125 and 110 gr JHP are optimized for massive expansion , and moderate penetration on human targets . To the point that some criticize them for too much expansion .

Most .44 Mag ammo has at least partial eye on hunting of deer and larger game . Even 180 jhp . and 210 Silvertip is designed for the compromise overlap of deep end of plausible for human defense & shallow side of plausible for broadside on whitetail .

 

[lazarus]

Counterintuitive perhaps , but indeed so . It has to do with bullet performance , and bullet design parameters .

.357 Mag defensive/ duty ammo , in the sterotypical 125 and 110 gr JHP are optimized for massive expansion , and moderate penetration on human targets . To the point that some criticize them for too much expansion .

Most .44 Mag ammo has at least partial eye on hunting of deer and larger game . Even 180 jhp . and 210 Silvertip is designed for the compromise overlap of deep end of plausible for human defense & shallow side of plausible for broadside on whitetail .

Could be the case depending on what is being used again, sure.

Most stuff being vaguely equal and the 44 mag hands .357 its hat to eat. For example The Hornady 125 and 158gr XTP loads penetrate 14.5" and 24.7" and expand .57 and .53" respectively. 44 mag 240gr loading is 20.4" penetration and .64" of expansion from what I can find (also lucky gunner tests, but not sure exactly equal). .357 135gr critical duty and 140gr leverEverloution is 19.2 and 20.4" and .50" and .54" of expansion. The 125gr critical defense is 14.5" and .54" of expansion. The 44 mag 225gr leverEverloution is 20.4" and .67" of expansion.

Those 180 and 210gr jhp silvertip are likely to have even more expansion and less penetration out of a handgun owing to the higher velocities.

Finding something vaguely similar to Lucky Gunner's tests, the 180gr XTP Underwood load penetrates through 6 layers of denim and then 11.8" of calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin and expands to .945"...

A 240gr V-crown is managing between .61 and .699" of expansion and over 20" of penetration.

Then again, how many people are swinging plain SPRN or just hard case lead or FMJ out of their 44 magnum? Might be some of that same effect as 9mm.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Quite a few . Because in mainstream availability over the years , to be controllable . and/ or non stressful to shoot lots of rounds in practice , they are using " Cowboy " rounds , or mid range rounds . ie , 240 lead @ 750- ish , or 240 lead @ nominal 1,000 fps ( nominal in 6 inch , typically 900- ish in 4 inch ). This mid range load was most common used within Detroit PD and Chicago PD in the years it was authorized , and constitute a large % of the documentated cases used in such studies .

A good expanding .429 bullet at those velocities would be a worthwhile thing . But in modern era , most commonly seen as a .44 Spl +P from the boutique mfgs , rather than as a downloaded .44 Magnum .

And then there's the. .41 Magnum Silvertip !