Concealed to Brandishing

[2500yards]

Sweatshirt push is so outdated and ineffective. Instead the best way to subtly brandish is to wear the Philster Enigma rig under your pants...but not just any pants, they must be break-away stripper pants. Shady guy approaches, and boom, display the moneymaker.

lol

 

[2500yards]

That was just a little humor. Refer to the post I replied to.

Me as well, but this thread has me wondering since it’s W&C , can you just carry in your hand?

 

[Art3]

Q: Why did you uncover your firearm? Were you communicating a threat?

A: No, it was simply more comfortable at the time to have it uncovered.

Sometimes, you have to spell it out for them

My understanding is that MD addresses/charges what we call "brandishing" as "assault. " Showing or drawing attention to a weapon with the deliberate intention of threatening or intimidating someone probably sounds like assault...and it kinda sounds like what the OP did.
Bullfrog offers a reasonable (to us) alibi for that action, but I agree with the consensus that there are better ways.

 

[Bullfrog]

But if there isn’t a brandishing law, isn’t it simply Hand Held Carry?

That was just a little humor. Refer to the post I replied to.



Back to the topic, there are probably specific laws, not necessarily specific to firearms, about communicating a threat, behaving in a threatening manner, etc.

That was the intent of my previous post. If you happen to switch to open carry because you choose to, that is one thing.

If you ostentatiously show your firearm while staring into someone's eyes and later make a statement that you wanted to appear threatening to someone because you felt uncomfortable, you may be entering different territory.

IANAL.

 

[Blaster229]

I totally understand we can open carry. I’m not asking that. I’m asking if the cautionary change could be seen as threatening and get me in trouble.

You do not do that. Please never say "cautionary change" ever again. That sounds silly and it isn't a thing.

First of all, don't get gas late at night.

Don't let a possible threat know you're armed. It's not a chest thumping contest. IF he isn't armed, you just showed him where he can get a pistol. And I am guessing you probably have zero weapon retention or fighting skills since you are asking this question.

Pump your gas and keep an eye on him. That's it. Hopefully you have your car locked.

If he comes towards you, start playing ring around the rosie around your car, create distance and look for a partner of his. If he follows you, that shows his intent on doing something. You will NEED that show of intent and in Maryland, you are satisfying retreat. You need a reactionary gap.

I'm not telling you what to do after that. You might want to dial 911 if he hasn't shown any weapon yet.
Me personally, I would be going inside the store if he hasn't produced a weapon, and get my position of advantage in there.

Hopefully I wouldn't have a gunfight out in the parking lot. These type of attacks more recently have been done by more than one assailant. I would be expecting a fight out in the parking lot.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Sweatshirt push is so outdated and ineffective. Instead the best way to subtly brandish is to wear the Philster Enigma rig under your pants...but not just any pants, they must be break-away stripper pants. Shady guy approaches, and boom, display the moneymaker.

OK, I actually laughed at that one- and may use it in true Chippendale's fashion sometime.

 

[Bob A]

But if there isn’t a brandishing law, isn’t it simply Hand Held Carry?

Aggravated assault perhaps?

I think I read that somewhere.

 

[Art3]

I wish I could find the full scene:


If I remember correctly, it starts with Eggar casually open carrying his shot gun. Then he assaults the tow truck driver who nonchalantly returns the assault.

 

[Squaregrouper]

I carry concealed with one exception... When I am going to deposit money in an ATM, I open carry. The clarifier being that I go to open carry before my car door is closed.
IMHO, switching from concealed to open carry in someone's presence could be considered using the firearm as an intimidation tactic. That being said, open carrying at an ATM and having someone pull up while you're already open carrying is clear you're not open carrying because of them specifically.
IANALTA

 

[Bullfrog]

If I remember correctly, it starts with Eggar casually open carrying his shot gun. Then he assaults the tow truck driver who nonchalantly returns the assault.

That was not Eggar.

That was a giant cockroach, with unlimited strength, a massive inferiority complex, and a real short temper, tear-assing around Manhattan Island in his brand-new Eggar suit.

 

[smokey]

You do not do that. Please never say "cautionary change" ever again. That sounds silly and it isn't a thing.

First of all, don't get gas late at night.

Don't let a possible threat know you're armed. It's not a chest thumping contest. IF he isn't armed, you just showed him where he can get a pistol. And I am guessing you probably have zero weapon retention or fighting skills since you are asking this question.

Pump your gas and keep an eye on him. That's it. Hopefully you have your car locked.

If he comes towards you, start playing ring around the rosie around your car, create distance and look for a partner of his. If he follows you, that shows his intent on doing something. You will NEED that show of intent and in Maryland, you are satisfying retreat. You need a reactionary gap.

I'm not telling you what to do after that. You might want to dial 911 if he hasn't shown any weapon yet.
Me personally, I would be going inside the store if he hasn't produced a weapon, and get my position of advantage in there.

Hopefully I wouldn't have a gunfight out in the parking lot. These type of attacks more recently have been done by more than one assailant. I would be expecting a fight out in the parking lot.

The big tough spot in his scenario is kids in the car. I'm not allowing a threat close to my kids, even if there's a glass window between him and them. I do make sure my keys are out of the ignition and in my pocket when pumping gas though. I also make sure my car is locked. Those two basic measures make gas station attacks much less easy and reduce risks to my kids locked in the car.

I don't like when parents leave doors open and keys clearly in the ignition as they wander around their cars pumping gas(often with their nose buried in a phone). It's too easy for someone to sneak up on the far side of the car, hop in, and roll out with their car.

So the scenario of someone pumping gas with one or more threatening adults approaching and kids in the car is a tough one. You're simultaneously doing things like making sure you're not boxed in by things like the pump hose and also need to be able to keep threats from getting close to your kids.

The best option is hopping in the car and boogeying out if there if possible, but if you're near the gas cap of your car with guys coming from the front, back, and far side of the pump, you've got limited options.

 

[2500yards]

You do not do that. Please never say "cautionary change" ever again. That sounds silly and it isn't a thing.

First of all, don't get gas late at night.

Don't let a possible threat know you're armed. It's not a chest thumping contest. IF he isn't armed, you just showed him where he can get a pistol. And I am guessing you probably have zero weapon retention or fighting skills since you are asking this question.

Pump your gas and keep an eye on him. That's it. Hopefully you have your car locked.

If he comes towards you, start playing ring around the rosie around your car, create distance and look for a partner of his. If he follows you, that shows his intent on doing something. You will NEED that show of intent and in Maryland, you are satisfying retreat. You need a reactionary gap.

I'm not telling you what to do after that. You might want to dial 911 if he hasn't shown any weapon yet.
Me personally, I would be going inside the store if he hasn't produced a weapon, and get my position of advantage in there.

Hopefully I wouldn't have a gunfight out in the parking lot. These type of attacks more recently have been done by more than one assailant. I would be expecting a fight out in the parking lot.

Ok, Precautionary.

None of this has happened for 1.

2. I actually have quite a bit of fighting experience. I’m pretty sure me getting into a physical fight with a gun on me isn’t the best idea and potentially the bad guy could end up with my gun. I don’t think fighting is the smartest idea, but please prove me otherwise.

3. Your correct. Not really much retention on my IWB holster.

The rest of your response is more telling to my curiosity and how that could potentially be a legal problem.

 

[2500yards]

I carry concealed with one exception... When I am going to deposit money in an ATM, I open carry. The clarifier being that I go to open carry before my car door is closed.
IMHO, switching from concealed to open carry in someone's presence could be considered using the firearm as an intimidation tactic. That being said, open carrying at an ATM and having someone pull up while you're already open carrying is clear you're not open carrying because of them specifically.
IANALTA

Ok, so let’s say I am carrying IWB but exposed as I uncover it before exiting the vehicle to pump gas. Partially Concealed/Partially Open all good right?

 

[owldo]

If Concealed under shirt IWB and you adjust the shirt inside the firearm, exposing the firearm;

Is that considered brandishing?

There is a threatening or intimidating factor in the definition of brandishing, so unless you show it and verbally suggest bodily harm ( assult ) IMO your OK !

 

[Johnconlee]

Wife and I were approached at a gas station while putting kids in the car a couple weeks ago. Wife saw him coming across the parking lot 100’ or so out. The guy got almost to the back of the truck 20’ or so out and was coming directly towards us. I put my right hand near my gun not on it, stayed covered by my shirt, left arm straight out, sternly said backup backup. Dude reached for the sky and starting making distance between us. Not sure what the intention was, probably just asking for gas money but I was cornered between him and my family.

The point of that story is I didn’t really even get to think about my next action. It will go from buckling car seats to draw before you get to consider garment positions. If you have time to think get in the car and drive away.

 

[wilcam47]

I wish I could find the full scene:


If I remember correctly, it starts with Eggar casually open carrying his shot gun. Then he assaults the tow truck driver who nonchalantly returns the assault.

 

[2500yards]

Wife and I were approached at a gas station while putting kids in the car a couple weeks ago. Wife saw him coming across the parking lot 100’ or so out. The guy got almost to the back of the truck 20’ or so out and was coming directly towards us. I put my right hand near the gun still under my shirt, left arm straight out, sternly said backup backup. Dude reached for the sky and starting making distance between us. Not sure what the intention was, probably just asking for gas money but I was cornered between him and my family.

The point of that story is I didn’t really even get to think about my next action. It will go from buckling car seats to draw before you get to consider garment positions. If you have time to think get in the car and drive away.

I actually had something very similar this past weekend happen to me. A guy waking straight to me at a gas station. It was dark but only like 7pm. Very suspicious looking guy. He ended up asking me for money but I kept my distance. I assume that’s probably how some criminals distract. I didn’t do anything with my shirt or move my hand near my gun but that situation is what got me thinking about my question in the beginning of this thread.

 

[ironpony]

Maybe switch to long gun for fuel purposes? MD?

 

[Threeband]

Muggers and such will commonly

1) Maneuver into position

2) Ask an "Interview Question" such as, "Do you have a cigarette?" "Do you know what time it is?" or "Can you give me a dollar?"

All the while they will be trying to size up their victim and decide what they want to do. They haven't yet done anything illegal.

Depending on how they read their victim's response, they will either cross the line and commit a crime, or they will back off.

The best response is to spot them during the first stage, while they're maneuvering into position. They can usually be turned aside pretty easily at that stage. Several responses in this thread have given examples of this. Go back and read Smokie's response in Post #7:

It's not a bad decision for the legal aspect, it's just dumb all around. If a shady guy is approaching you, turn your attention to him and address him verbally while he is still far away. Use body positioning so he can't get into a threatening position to you. If he poses an imminent threat of bodily harm or death to you after you've taken measures to prevent it, draw and fire.

Criminals are predators. They act very much like a wild predator such as a shark or wolf. They choose when, how, whom, and where to attack in a way that minimizes risk to themselves. They even move in predatory patterns like straight lines and flanking maneuvers.

Turning attention to a predator will often cause them to not attack. A quick, "howdy", with your eyes on them and body positioned to make you hard to sneak up on goes a long way to preventing anything bad from happening. If need be, you can add things like lighting the hotspot of a flashlight on their face with stern commands to back up. Showing a gun for deterrence is not wise.

Guns are for shooting, not showing.

You want to project alertness and confidence. Don't follow their script. Don't answer any question they ask: rather, introduce your own script. " A quick, 'howdy', with your eyes on them and body positioned to make you hard to sneak up on " accomplishes that well during the Maneuver stage, while still showing them Respect.

You want to at least make them uncertain about you. Make them doubtful.

If it gets to the Interview stage, "Say, do you know what time that 9:30 bus get here?" I think you need to be more decisive. Move away if possible, don't answer their question. "No. I don't have anything for you." You might raise your weak hand as if to fend them off, while reaching toward what could be a concealed surprise with your strong hand.

The main thing is to show them you are not a good victim. Surprise them. Make them uncertain. Throw out their script and make them follow your script. Let them wonder whether or not you have a weapon, but convince them they don't want to find out.

 

[Jimgoespewpew]

Would this scenario below be acceptable or possibly seen as having potential legal implications:

I’m getting gas late at night, very shady guy approaching me, I change from concealed to open carry, moving my sweatshirt inside the gun & obviously making a point that I’m uncomfortable with the situation?

Ask your lawyer