Carrying concealed and open carrying an AR pistol in MD .... tested

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  • outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    37,860
    Quoting you but it seems like a lot of people have similiar questions.

    Been a cop 22 years. The number of "gun people" amongst police is only marginally higher than it is in the general population. Cops spend WAY more time driving and using computers than they do with guns, but nobody is surprised that we're not all computer guys or car guys. Hell, I moderate this board and I'd have needed a minute to figure out if it was a braced pistol or an SBR.

    As for knowing the laws, I promise you there isn't a cop anywhere who knows all the minutia of every law in their jurisdiction. That's why we have numbers we can call to verify stuff. With as fast as the legislature passes inane new laws, there's simply no way to remember all the details of all of them.

    My opinion, worth what you paid for it.

    Edited to add... I am curious why her body cam footage is available on YouTube. FoIA request?
    This proves the point I so poorly tried to make^^^
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    22,823
    If this were Tel Aviv, I'd think little of it. Around here... it's a bit out of the norm. I would probably boot-scoot and boogy. on out of there.
    The above summarises my thoughts on OC in places like MD. Especially carrying those overly killy things like EBRs.

    I'm pleased that the guy didn't get ventilated, but if he tried this in PG or MoCo, for example, he might have hit room temp. The rural mindset differs from the areas with high Karen Koncentrations. It's always a good idea before grandstanding to evaluate whether the juice is worth the squeeze.
     

    adit

    ReMember
    Feb 20, 2013
    13,655
    DE
    The above summarises my thoughts on OC in places like MD. Especially carrying those overly killy things like EBRs.

    I'm pleased that the guy didn't get ventilated, but if he tried this in PG or MoCo, for example, he might have hit room temp. The rural mindset differs from the areas with high Karen Koncentrations. It's always a good idea before grandstanding to evaluate whether the juice is worth the squeeze.
    I would not be surprised if all police agencies in the state have this video discussed during roll call.

    Might not be a bad idea for someone like MSI to forward the video to all of them with a note on what went right and wrong on the call.

    Adding in LGOC is legal in MD per Dougie (wasn't it Gansler that said it?).
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    48,801
    Bel Air
    I would not be surprised if all police agencies in the state have this video discussed during roll call.

    Might not be a bad idea for someone like MSI to forward the video to all of them with a note on what went right and wrong on the call.

    Adding in LGOC is legal in MD per Dougie (wasn't it Gansler that said it?).
    It was Gansler. Fly in the ointment in THIS video is the AR is a pistol. The fellow did mention long gun open carry being legal toward the end of the video, IIRC.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    22,366
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Shot the Falling Steel match this morning at the AGC and afterwards another MDS member and I went to get a bite to eat at the Main Stage Grille in that shopping center on the road away from the dump with the Weiss supermarket. It's hot out and I didn't want to untuck my wet RSO shooting jersey and drape it over my OWB 320 so OC it was.

    When we were seated the waitress asked if we were on a team (sports bar type of place) and then reading the jerseys asked if we had been shooting this morning? We gave her a few of the deets and she gave us the 10% team discount on our meal. We were there over an hour, walked through the place to use the bathroom to wash hands when we first got there and to use the head before I left. No Karens, no SWATTING and no issues, just the way it should be.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    48,801
    Bel Air
    Shot the Falling Steel match this morning at the AGC and afterwards another MDS member and I went to get a bite to eat at the Main Stage Grille in that shopping center on the road away from the dump with the Weiss supermarket. It's hot out and I didn't want to untuck my wet RSO shooting jersey and drape it over my OWB 320 so OC it was.

    When we were seated the waitress asked if we were on a team (sports bar type of place) and then reading the jerseys asked if we had been shooting this morning? We gave her a few of the deets and she gave us the 10% team discount on our meal. We were there over an hour, walked through the place to use the bathroom to wash hands when we first got there and to use the head before I left. No Karens, no SWATTING and no issues, just the way it should be.
    It’s interesting to me how little attention an OC holstered handgun draws almost everywhere.
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    13,743
    White Marsh, MD
    I think you'll find that, if the law changes as we hope it will, most people won't give a damn about you carrying. Sure there will be Karen instances but they'll be a minority even here
     

    Mark392001

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 18, 2009
    7,347
    Glen Burnie, MD
    I’m of the mindset that while it’s not what I would personally choose to do I support the right and was encouraged that the interaction with LEO’s was handled professionally and cordially. If I were another customer I would probably keep my distance as well as it is out of the norm and the question of intent would be in my mind. As another permit holder I was also pleased to see how responsive the Gun Center/MSP were in validating the permit and answering technical questions quickly.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    37,860
    Shot the Falling Steel match this morning at the AGC and afterwards another MDS member and I went to get a bite to eat at the Main Stage Grille in that shopping center on the road away from the dump with the Weiss supermarket. It's hot out and I didn't want to untuck my wet RSO shooting jersey and drape it over my OWB 320 so OC it was.

    When we were seated the waitress asked if we were on a team (sports bar type of place) and then reading the jerseys asked if we had been shooting this morning? We gave her a few of the deets and she gave us the 10% team discount on our meal. We were there over an hour, walked through the place to use the bathroom to wash hands when we first got there and to use the head before I left. No Karens, no SWATTING and no issues, just the way it should be.
    If and when I ever get a Md W&C, I would have no problem OC'ing at times. I know that wrinkles some noses, but I'd rather tell any prospective perp I AM loaded instead of some half-whit rolling the dice with me. But that's just me...
     

    River02

    One Ping Only...
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 19, 2015
    2,111
    Mid-Maryland
    Spoon059-- thanks for that reasonable and thoughtful post... I appreciate it. Please forgive my ignorance but shortly after I watched this video I found myself wondering-- what will the WPD do with this information? The question comes from 43 years of military service where I've been engaged in hundreds of different training scenarios and realtime event after action reviews--so that's where this is coming from. I've always found the best units ie. teams/squads/platoons etc. all the way through Brigade and Division staffs have a healthy desire to learn from events like this. For that purpose there is always time set aside for an introspective, critical review-- to discuss and determine what went right...what went wrong...and how do we get better for the next event that somewhat resembles this one? Is this a practice that Police Departments encourage? Mandate? Use beyond an academic setting? I'd be interested to know-- it just seems like that 14 minute video would lend itself to a whole lot of learning and potentially may be a catalyst for an increasing trend of "better outcomes" for officers and citizens. Interested to read your response (or any other salty peace officer's musings on the subject)

    I agree, my immediate thought is that you NEVER accept a gun from anyone without making your own determination that the gun is safe. Even at the range from another officer, I'm inspecting that gun. Even with the mag out and the slide locked open, I'm inspecting that gun. I had an officer that was senior to me searching a car and recover a gun from the back seat, he pointed it at me and said it was a replica. It wasn't. I was quite pissed at this guy. An Army guy, none the less.

    Reference the female officer's sarcastic comment... I don't think it was sarcastic, I think it was incredulous, like she just came to the realization that people can legally carry a gun. Sarcasm would have been preferable to what I believe was actually ignorance.

    I disagree that its the BEST outcome, and in fact it was a belabored obvious outcome that should have been cleared up much quicker (although I believe your comment may have been tongue-in-cheek about the draconian gun laws and the way they are enforced in Maryland). He had a permit, his guns were legal and there was no PC that a crime occurred. They shouldn't have been banging guns off his painted trunk lid either. There have been plenty of times I've gotten a call about someone with a gun and was able to quickly determine that everything is fine. Either they have a carry permit (very rare in my experience) or they are an upstanding citizen tht isn't obviously engaged in criminal behavior other than having a gun in their car when they shouldn't. No drugs, no warrants, no protective orders and the gun isn't stolen, I tend to give you a verbal warning about the anti-gun laws in Maryland and encourage you to do your best not to violate them and I move along. On the other hand, if you are using alcohol or drugs, or you have a warrant, or protective order, or you run from me (or any other type of similar behavior) and you have a gun on you, I know just enough about the gun laws to usually make the arrest.

    I guess I can understand the argument for these types of forced police encounters, but I just want to give some words of caution. Much like this female officer appeared oblivious to the laws, so are many members of the public. We live in a nanny state full of idiots that feel they need the government to do everything for them. These 2nd Amendment audits could very easily cause these idiots to be more vocal and even more scared about the "scary guns" and could get even more laws passed and demand more punishment from the court system. It is a double edged sword. I worry that the juice just isn't worth the squeeze, and the negative attention could prove to make things more restrictive in the future. Again, these are my thoughts and everyone is free to disagree with them.

    I honestly don't feel that gun laws will ever become substantially better in Maryland. One of my retirement demands is to live in a state where my wife and daughters can legally carry a weapon for their own protection. I will ensure that they are trained and safe, but they should have the same God given right to protect themselves that Maryland only believes that police officers should have.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    37,860
    I also can't help but wonder, if this little stunt went sideways and an innocent got hurt, would common theme of this thread be different? My suspicion is yes, in a big way.

    Wheelbarrow for the jewels and a thimble for a brain bucket.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    37,860
    I agree, my immediate thought is that you NEVER accept a gun from anyone without making your own determination that the gun is safe. Even at the range from another officer, I'm inspecting that gun. Even with the mag out and the slide locked open, I'm inspecting that gun. I had an officer that was senior to me searching a car and recover a gun from the back seat, he pointed it at me and said it was a replica. It wasn't. I was quite pissed at this guy. An Army guy, none the less.

    Reference the female officer's sarcastic comment... I don't think it was sarcastic, I think it was incredulous, like she just came to the realization that people can legally carry a gun. Sarcasm would have been preferable to what I believe was actually ignorance.

    I disagree that its the BEST outcome, and in fact it was a belabored obvious outcome that should have been cleared up much quicker (although I believe your comment may have been tongue-in-cheek about the draconian gun laws and the way they are enforced in Maryland). He had a permit, his guns were legal and there was no PC that a crime occurred. They shouldn't have been banging guns off his painted trunk lid either. There have been plenty of times I've gotten a call about someone with a gun and was able to quickly determine that everything is fine. Either they have a carry permit (very rare in my experience) or they are an upstanding citizen tht isn't obviously engaged in criminal behavior other than having a gun in their car when they shouldn't. No drugs, no warrants, no protective orders and the gun isn't stolen, I tend to give you a verbal warning about the anti-gun laws in Maryland and encourage you to do your best not to violate them and I move along. On the other hand, if you are using alcohol or drugs, or you have a warrant, or protective order, or you run from me (or any other type of similar behavior) and you have a gun on you, I know just enough about the gun laws to usually make the arrest.

    I guess I can understand the argument for these types of forced police encounters, but I just want to give some words of caution. Much like this female officer appeared oblivious to the laws, so are many members of the public. We live in a nanny state full of idiots that feel they need the government to do everything for them. These 2nd Amendment audits could very easily cause these idiots to be more vocal and even more scared about the "scary guns" and could get even more laws passed and demand more punishment from the court system. It is a double edged sword. I worry that the juice just isn't worth the squeeze, and the negative attention could prove to make things more restrictive in the future. Again, these are my thoughts and everyone is free to disagree with them.

    I honestly don't feel that gun laws will ever become substantially better in Maryland. One of my retirement demands is to live in a state where my wife and daughters can legally carry a weapon for their own protection. I will ensure that they are trained and safe, but they should have the same God given right to protect themselves that Maryland only believes that police officers should have.
    Amen.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    37,860
    Yes they should know the law. I know I have crazy high expectations for people out there taking away people's life and liberty.
    They should but they don't. I expect that. And I don't have the power to change that.

    I've plied my trade for over 45 years and I DON"T know everything there is to know about it.

    It's human nature; the good, the bad, and the indifferent.
     

    camo556

    Active Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,241
    They should but they don't. I expect that. And I don't have the power to change that.

    I've plied my trade for over 45 years and I DON"T know everything there is to know about it.

    It's human nature; the good, the bad, and the indifferent.
    Well, here is hoping that when you are arrested and you ask what the charge is, they don't answer "What, do you expect me to have a law degree? Firearms laws are complicated. We are taking you to jail and we will figure it out later."

    I know, expecting an officer to articulate a charge when they arrest you is so 18th century of me.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    48,801
    Bel Air
    They should but they don't. I expect that. And I don't have the power to change that.

    I've plied my trade for over 45 years and I DON"T know everything there is to know about it.

    It's human nature; the good, the bad, and the indifferent.
    When the people who write Maryland’s gun laws can’t articulate what exactly they mean, how do you expect the police to do so? Is that a flash hider, or a brake? What?
     

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