BP conversions legality

[Tenhoff]

Are there any legality issues in either MD or PA For someone under 21 buying a Black powder and converting it to fire cartridges with a drop in cylinder? Is it considered a fire arm and would it be mine if so? would I be allowed to open carry if I took it to my apartment in PA? Thanks.

Here's kinda what I'm aiming to go for but I like the a stainless drop in .45LC cylinder more.

 

[Blacksmith101]

Please go read the legal definitions of a "Firearm" in both states and the federal laws then see if you can answer your own questions.

 

[CaribooLou]

I think this is kind of like putting an SBR upper on an AR lower. That upper by itself can be purchased by anyone, but once its on the lower its subject to mote regulation. I don't think that would be legal in MD. Best bet would be to talk to an FFL.

 

[04RWon]

Sounds more like buying an hbar and putting a 16" gov profile upper on*

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I think this is kind of like putting an SBR upper on an AR lower. That upper by itself can be purchased by anyone, but once its on the lower its subject to mote regulation. I don't think that would be legal in MD. Best bet would be to talk to an FFL.

That is not true.

Having an 11 inch, barrelled upper for an AR15 is the same as having an ILLEGAL short barrelled rifle if you have the receiver that mates to it.

Same thing holds true for M16 full auto parts kits if you have an AR15 Lower. In fact, having just the full auto SEAR is the same as having an ENTIRE machine gun.

Same thing holds true if you have a cut-down, 12 inch shotgun barrel and have a shotgun receiver.

If the parts can be mated together, you have an ILLEGAL firearm and you are going to Federal PMITA Prison.

Just my .02

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Please go read the legal definitions of a "Firearm" in both states and the federal laws then see if you can answer your own questions.

What he said X ten!!!

 

[CaribooLou]

That is not true.

Having an 11 inch, barrelled upper for an AR15 is the same as having an ILLEGAL short barrelled rifle if you have the receiver that mates to it.

Same thing holds true for M16 full auto parts kits if you have an AR15 Lower. In fact, having just the full auto SEAR is the same as having an ENTIRE machine gun.

Same thing holds true if you have a cut-down, 12 inch shotgun barrel and have a shotgun receiver.

If the parts can be mated together, you have an ILLEGAL firearm and you are going to Federal PMITA Prison.

Just my .02

I disagree, until they are assembled neither part should be considered an SBR, but I don't own one so I'm not positive. Back to the OPs question. I believe he will be converting a non regulated firearm into one with a regulated configuration.

 

[Dan_G]

Constructive Possession.

 

[CrawfishStu]

This thread is a can of worms.

I'm not a lawyer but I think that some of these statements are only partially true.

There is certainly a difference between owning NFA items and regular firearms.

You can build a regulated handgun or rifle for personal use so long as the firearm is legal to own. Hence the AR Pistol builds, 80% AR and AK and 1911 builds, etc. I think the issue you might find with swapping in a cylinder for centerfire into a black powder pistol is the bore or a pistol must be rifled. If it was a smooth bore it would wind up as an NFA item. Short barreled shotgun right?

Also, owning parts to an sbr and parts that are NFA items themselves such as a regulated auto sear are a little different. I think owning an autosear that is not registered is illegal because it is not registered. It isn't illegal because you own a gun to put it in.

Is owning an AR pistol and a normal AR illegal? Putting them together would be a crime. But just in owning them there is no constructive intent or purpose there that can be proved. Would you wind up in trouble? You might very well be in for a long legal battle but can they prove that having a legal to own upper or barrel for an AR with a length under 16" and a lower that you could assemble it on means that you were going to break the law beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think so but it is better safe than sorry and I have denial pins in mine.

As others have said....read carefully and anything that you are "interpreting" from the wording, you should check with a lawyer.

 

[hvymax]

Pretty sure the under 21 would be the issue. If you are not legal to own it then you probably are not legal to make and have it.

 

[CrawfishStu]

Constructive Possession.

Indeed....but they still have to prove intent. Grey areas in NFA often end in trouble. I wouldn't risk it.

Constructive Possession exists when a person knowingly has the power and intention at a given time to exercise dominion and control over an object, either directly or through others. US v. Turnbough, 1997 U.S. App. LEXIS 11886, *6.

 

[CrawfishStu]

Pretty sure the under 21 would be the issue. If you are not legal to own it then you probably are not legal to make and have it.

You know...I meant to open with that but totally got sidetracked in the constructive possession mind blowing thought process of being a criminal before committing a crime.

 

[Tenhoff]

Pretty sure the under 21 would be the issue. If you are not legal to own it then you probably are not legal to make and have it.

Is that the same in PA? Because from what I understand you can own a handgun in PA at 18 if it is transferred from family to family.


edit this is what I found in federal law



(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.


16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

Is it redesigning the firearm if I'm not actually changing the firearm? The 1858 was designed to swap cylinders with ease and they did make cartridge conversion cylinders like the one I'm getting for this gun in it's day. I'm also not sure if the .45 LC is considered conventional.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The 1858 replica is NOT a firearm as regards possion or normal usage. It IS a firearm under the "use of firearm for crime of violence" statute. It is governed by the "Dangerous Weapons" statute as to carrying.

When you install a conversion cylnder w/o any alterations to the base gun , it is a modern firearm while the cylnder is in place. If modifications are made to the base gun for the instalation of the conversion cylnder , it permently becomes a modern firearm.

Under Md law you would need to be 21 . Consult reliable sources and statutes for Pa law.

 

[Tenhoff]

The 1858 replica is NOT a firearm as regards possion or normal usage. It IS a firearm under the "use of firearm for crime of violence" statute. It is governed by the "Dangerous Weapons" statute as to carrying.

When you install a conversion cylnder w/o any alterations to the base gun , it is a modern firearm while the cylnder is in place. If modifications are made to the base gun for the instalation of the conversion cylnder , it permently becomes a modern firearm.

Under Md law you would need to be 21 . Consult reliable sources and statutes for Pa law.

Thanks! And thanks for the straight answer.