Hey guys I'm new to handgun shooting. Recently acquired my first handgun a few months ago, Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact in 9mm. It's been fun to shoot but lately I've had some jamming issues, stovepiping that is, particularly when I use 9mm Nato. Am I just limpwristing it or is this an ammo / gun issue?
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TheSPkid
Active Member
Could be any of the three. I'd first start off by switching the ammo. I have a Kahr that won't feed fiocchi but has no troubles with anything else.
TheSPkid
Active Member
That I'm not sure about.
StantonCree
Watch your beer
- Jan 23, 2011
- 23,934
I mean there are 500 reasons a gun could do this but my guess would be the fact that you have a compact that operates on a blowback design. You'll get rid of that within a year and buy a glock.
Did you buy the gun new? I ask because it could be an extractor issue.
As for your rounds being hot, I don't think that's the case.
Did you buy the gun new? I ask because it could be an extractor issue.
As for your rounds being hot, I don't think that's the case.
The 9mm NATO spec is about 2,400PSI higher than standard 9mm pressures. A calculator says that the NATO ammo is 1.07x times hotter but how does that match up with gun abuse, I can't say. 9mm +p specs are hotter than the NATO specs.
Some guns shouldn't be run with hotter ammo. Some guns may need recoil springs replaced more often if you are pushing the gun.
I do not know the ammo specs for that gun, but you should check with the maker about your ammo choices.
Must be a 9mm ammo problem peculiar to the new gun, 'cause the Bersa .380 is a hungry little thing and does not care what you're feeding.
Deep Creek Rock
.._. .._ _._. _._ .._
Take a look at your owners manual ,and see what they state about ammo usage. This is sorta like the .223 Remington VS 5.56 Nato deal. Same cartridge dimensions - different pressures. Slide function does rely on generated cartridge pressures.
Here is a little info on the 9mm NATO:
"9 mm NATO variant
Comparison of 7.62 mm NATO, 5.56 mm NATO and 9 mm NATO.
The 9 mm cartridge has been manufactured by, or for, more than 70 different countries and has become a standard pistol caliber for NATO and other military forces around the world. Its official nomenclature among NATO users is "9 mm NATO". The 9 mm NATO can be considered as an overpressure variant of the 9×19mm Parabellum that is defined by NATO standards. The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at 252 MPa (36,500 psi) where C.I.P. rates the 9 mm Luger PTmax somewhat lower at 235 MPa (34,100 psi). The 315 MPa (45,700 psi) proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm NATO proof test however equals the proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm Luger C.I.P. proof test. While the NATO standards do not specify the type of bullet to be used, the Hague Convention of 1899 prohibits the use of expanding ammunition in warfare by signatories, and therefore official 9 mm NATO ammunition is FMJ "ball" bullets"
Here is a little info on the 9mm NATO:
"9 mm NATO variant
Comparison of 7.62 mm NATO, 5.56 mm NATO and 9 mm NATO.
The 9 mm cartridge has been manufactured by, or for, more than 70 different countries and has become a standard pistol caliber for NATO and other military forces around the world. Its official nomenclature among NATO users is "9 mm NATO". The 9 mm NATO can be considered as an overpressure variant of the 9×19mm Parabellum that is defined by NATO standards. The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at 252 MPa (36,500 psi) where C.I.P. rates the 9 mm Luger PTmax somewhat lower at 235 MPa (34,100 psi). The 315 MPa (45,700 psi) proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm NATO proof test however equals the proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm Luger C.I.P. proof test. While the NATO standards do not specify the type of bullet to be used, the Hague Convention of 1899 prohibits the use of expanding ammunition in warfare by signatories, and therefore official 9 mm NATO ammunition is FMJ "ball" bullets"
StantonCree
Watch your beer
- Jan 23, 2011
- 23,934
Yeah but deep creek a hotter round wouldn't cause a stove pipe would it?
I was under the impression that something could be possibly not be letting the slide to go all the way back. Judging by what we have been given I'm really under the impression of user error since its a compact blockback gun, just like the Walther, it needs to be held quite firm to avoid stove piping.
Maybe the extractor has an ssue that isn't it allowing it to toss the round out.
Or its short stroking from either a bad spring or limp wrist.
I am well aware your way more versed in reloading, pressure, FPS, and everything when it comes to acutal knowledge of bullet-powder-casing dynamics but you think the round could be the cause for the short stroking?
I was under the impression that something could be possibly not be letting the slide to go all the way back. Judging by what we have been given I'm really under the impression of user error since its a compact blockback gun, just like the Walther, it needs to be held quite firm to avoid stove piping.
Maybe the extractor has an ssue that isn't it allowing it to toss the round out.
Or its short stroking from either a bad spring or limp wrist.
I am well aware your way more versed in reloading, pressure, FPS, and everything when it comes to acutal knowledge of bullet-powder-casing dynamics but you think the round could be the cause for the short stroking?
Deep Creek Rock
.._. .._ _._. _._ .._
Maybe the slide velocity is too fast with a higher generated pressure round - that would be my guess considering he stated the standard 9mm round cycle fine.
Nanook
F-notso-NG-anymore
Maybe randomly mix a few different boxes together and have a buddy load the mags for you. If the gun runs all of it: it's you. If certain brand/labels have issues: it's the ammo. If you have multiple mags, do all of them do it or just one?
Have you cleaned it (no, REALLY CLEANED it) like you mean it? It is surprising how a little piece of crud can foul a firearm.
Have you cleaned it (no, REALLY CLEANED it) like you mean it? It is surprising how a little piece of crud can foul a firearm.
It's either the ammo or it needs a real cleaning. Bersa 9mm thunders are Rock solid. I own one and feed it everything from federal to pmc and even the brown bear stuff. Steel, copper or even aluminum cased Ammo. It takes it all. But a good cleaning is a must and if the ammo is
To hot hot for the gun then stop with the NATO
Stuff.
To hot hot for the gun then stop with the NATO
Stuff.
DoubleTap007
Active Member
I would think the problem is a combo of the ammo and your recoil spring.
I would do the following: Shoot some plain walmart ammo, Winchester White Box, UMC, Federal. And see if there are any issues with plain jane ammo.
As noted the higher pressure NATO 9mm round could be causing the FTE since the slide is getting kicked back harder and faster then the recoil spring can slow down/tolerate, and its closing the chamber before the old shell can make it out.
How old is the gun and the mags ?
I would do the following: Shoot some plain walmart ammo, Winchester White Box, UMC, Federal. And see if there are any issues with plain jane ammo.
As noted the higher pressure NATO 9mm round could be causing the FTE since the slide is getting kicked back harder and faster then the recoil spring can slow down/tolerate, and its closing the chamber before the old shell can make it out.
How old is the gun and the mags ?
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