Ban on guns in post offices is unconstitutional, US judge rules

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  • Nobody

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 15, 2009
    2,794
    Pretty sure a business can make workplace policy.
    I am pretty sure they can too, however as a government entity would they not be beholden to the Constitution?

    Can they make a policy that does the postal workers free speech or to ban practicing certain religions?

    My private company boss can curtail my free speech but can my .gov boss curtail it?

    The above question is for thought not in practicality.

    Nobody
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,075
    Montgomery County
    I am pretty sure they can too, however as a government entity would they not be beholden to the Constitution?

    My boss can curtail my free speech but can my .gov boss curtail it?

    The above question is for thought not in practicality.

    Nobody
    If you sign an employment contract that comes right out and says that your public communications are subject to the rules of your [insert .gov entity here] gig, then that changes the 1A landscape. Taking that job is an act of SELF-censorship as part of getting that money, as opposed to getting it from somewhere else that strikes a different bargain.
     

    Nobody

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 15, 2009
    2,794
    If you sign an employment contract that comes right out and says that your public communications are subject to the rules of your [insert .gov entity here] gig, then that changes the 1A landscape. Taking that job is an act of SELF-censorship as part of getting that money, as opposed to getting it from somewhere else that strikes a different bargain.
    So when you sign the dotted line you relinquish your rights? I would think that requiring you to that that would be unconstitutional itself with rare exceptions, NSA ECT.

    Nobody
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,075
    Montgomery County
    So when you sign the dotted line you relinquish your rights? I would think that requiring you to that that would be unconstitutional itself with rare exceptions, NSA ECT.

    Nobody
    Millions of government employees work on the condition they don’t disparage their superiors in public (for instance). You are under ZERO obligation to seek out that sort of work.

    Millions in the private sector also sign NDAs and operate under all sorts of morals clauses and what-you-can’t-say-about-your-employer rules if you want to keep getting their money.
     

    Allen65

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    6,956
    Anne Arundel County
    So when you sign the dotted line you relinquish your rights? I would think that requiring you to that that would be unconstitutional itself with rare exceptions, NSA ECT.

    Nobody
    The Feds can limit what a GS employee can say about their actual work under various privacy, contracting, and national security laws, but there is no employment contract that prevents from someone, on their own time and dime (i.e. not on your GOV computer account, not while on the clock, and not speaking on behalf of your GOV position), from criticizing GOV officials, policies, and decisions.

    The rules are different for uniformed service members, and they can get UCMJed for disparaging superiors because it's a threat to discipline and order within the ranks.
     
    Last edited:

    Steel Hunter

    Active Member
    Nov 10, 2019
    537
    Getting a win for carry in post offices would be of good use in other sensitive places cases I would imagine.
     

    jc1240

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 18, 2013
    14,626
    Westminster, MD
    Was there an injunction? If not has anyone tried this in MD yet?
    Screen Shot 2024-02-09 at 2.58.52 PM.png
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,492
    White Marsh, MD
    Was there an injunction? If not has anyone tried this in MD yet?
    Plenty of folks have openly stated on this forum that concealed is concealed and that they do this all the time. Really how will anyone know unless you're waving it around or inadvertently show it?
     

    LAC_MD

    Active Member
    Oct 18, 2022
    678
    Towson
    Plenty of folks have openly stated on this forum that concealed is concealed and that they do this all the time. Really how will anyone know unless you're waving it around or inadvertently show it?
    Or if they have metal detectors… I am not trying to get arrested…
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,075
    Montgomery County
    so are we ok for usps carry
    No. The ruling only applied to the one case involving the one person. It has to get a lot farther up the food chain before it would impact nationally. That could take a long time. Understand your risk tolerance for being prohibited for life, and act accordingly.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,654
    I am pretty sure they can too, however as a government entity would they not be beholden to the Constitution?

    Can they make a policy that does the postal workers free speech or to ban practicing certain religions?

    My private company boss can curtail my free speech but can my .gov boss curtail it?

    The above question is for thought not in practicality.

    Nobody
    They can.

    In this case it would be your employer restricting your speech, not the government. So long as they were not offering criminal penalties. Termination of employment would be fair game for disfavored speech or something like carrying a gun at work. Even for a government employer. Now, their bar is still higher, but it isn't in the stratosphere.

    BTW, I am being overly broad on "retaliation for disfavored speech". In the private sector, there isn't much in the way of speech your employer cannot retaliate against you for.

    A government employer it is much stricter, but unless it is something that specifically falls under the whistleblower protection act, speech about your employer, workplace, coworkers, superiors, etc. can get you terminated. So don't get hired by the FBI and then shit talk the FBI or your bosses there.

    You can also be fired under somewhat more nebulous reasons related to making your employer generally look bad. But that one is going to be a much higher bar. That usually takes criminal convictions. Say, drunk driving convicting might get your butt fired even if it doesn't have a direct bearing on the performance of your job.
     
    Last edited:

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    13,938
    Mt Airy
    Pretty sure the "No Guns" sign was gone from my PO when I went by last week. I'll look closer this week.
     

    Aamdskeetshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 19, 2013
    1,737
    Moco
    I have a question, in Dundalk at the drug store that has a post office counter in it but it is not a part office building. If one was to go to that counter would you be in violation of federal law?
    Nobody
    If it's Drug City Pharmacy, that's a Contract Postal Unit run by store employees.

     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,492
    White Marsh, MD
    Pretty sure the "No Guns" sign was gone from my PO when I went by last week. I'll look closer this week.
    The one at mine isn't even on the door or in the vestibule. It's behind the counter wayyyyy back at the back wall. No one could reasonably see it. Took me a while to locate it.
     

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