ATF Threat To Curios And Relics

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  • Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    29,962

    ATF Threat To Curios And Relics​


    May 19, 2022
    a9eafe1b266bf4d8ddcdc14821156e83
    by John Richardson 0 Comments


    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has released a new report entitled National Firearms Commerce and Trafficking Assessment: Firearms in Commerce. It was released May 5th and has received some attention in the media. That attention is concentrated primarily on privately made firearms and the increase in production of all firearms since the year 2000.
    As they say, the devil is in the details and this 308-page report touches on a lot more than the increase in production and privately made firearms. While I may get into depth on other parts of the report and the BATFE’s recommendation in later posts, today I want to concentrate on what they have to say about curios and relics.
    As things stand now, a C&R is defined by Title 27 Code of Federal Regulations §478.26. They can be a) firearms manufactured more than 50 years prior to today; b) firearms certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum that exhibits firearms to be of museum interest; or c) any other firearm that gets a substantial part of its value from being “novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.” Thus, a curio and relic could be any firearm ranging from a Ruger Model 77 made in April 1972 to Gen. George Patton’s personal handguns. In my own collection of curios and relics is a Winchester Model 50 semi-auto shotgun. It qualified under the 50 year rule and its only real claim to fame for me is that it was manufactured in 1957 which is the year of birth.
    The report devotes parts of two pages to curios and relics as well as C&R FFLs. As I have held this FFL since 1997, this was of particular interest. First they note that the number of 03 FFLs has increased by 148% since 2000 with there being 59,457 currently. Those of us with this license now compose 40% of all FFLs. Much is that proportional increase is a result of the decrease in numbers of 01 FFLs due to increased regulations and the anti-gun policies of the Obama and Biden administrations. Second they note while they do have a list of all firearms classified as curios and relics since 1972, they do not have a data system that tracks information on these firearms, museums that certify museum interest, etc. They then note their data analysis questions the 50-year rule. Therein lies the rub.
    Here are their recommendations (Page 162):
    1. ATF should receive funding to develop a data system that tracks the history of each C&R firearm on the list to include: full description of the firearm, the date the firearm is added to the C&R list, identification of the criteria met to add the firearm to the C&R list, the person making the request, what museum stated the firearm was of historical interest, and who stated the firearm was rare, novel, or collectible. The three criteria for approving a firearm to be added to the C&R list are found in 27 C.F.R. §478. As possible, this information should be catalogued for ATFs current list C&R List -January 1972 through April 2018.
    2. DOJ should review the C&R criteria in 27 C.F.R. §478 to determine if the “more than 50 years old” factor is still valid in determining that a firearm is truly a curio or relic. The C&R provisions were enacted in 1968 and firearms more than 50 years old at that time were manufactured prior to 1918. Today, firearms that are more than 50 years old were manufactured prior to 1972 and this now includes a wide variety of modem firearms to include some AR-15 type rifles, AK-47 type rifles, SKS rifles, and semi-automatic handguns. Importation, transfer, and background check regulations are different for firearms on the
    C&R list and holders of a Type 03 FFL.
    As I see it, these recommendations boil down to two things. First, BATFE says we want money to fund what we should have already been doing with existing funding. Second, BATFE is saying Springfield 1903s we were cool with but those icky ARs, AKs, SKSs, and semi-auto handguns give us the vapors.
    Unfortunately, the Gun Control Act of 1968 gives the Attorney General the authority to define a curio or relic by regulation. Given the anti-gun, anti-rights bias of both Merrick Garland and President Joe Biden, this is a real problem. I could foresee them categorically removing the 50-year rule from what constitutes a curio and relic and limiting them to what is on the list. January 20. 2025 as well as January 2023 cannot get here soon enough.


     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    22,340
    Purchase proactively. Preempt prohibition. Consider buying a case of ammunition for each firearm you own; without food, they're scrap metal. Don't wait until regulations limit your ability.

    When your FFL03 expires, burn your bound book. If it's still worthwhile afterward, apply for a new one and start afresh.

    Don't make it easy for the grabbers; utilise the law as it is currently written.
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    29,962
    Purchase proactively. Preempt prohibition. Consider buying a case of ammunition for each firearm you own; without food, they're scrap metal. Don't wait until regulations limit your ability.

    When your FFL03 expires, burn your bound book. If it's still worthwhile afterward, apply for a new one and start afresh.

    Don't make it easy for the grabbers; utilise the law as it is currently written

    Purchase proactively. Preempt prohibition. Consider buying a case of ammunition for each firearm you own; without food, they're scrap metal. Don't wait until regulations limit your ability.

    When your FFL03 expires, burn your bound book. If it's still worthwhile afterward, apply for a new one and start afresh.

    Don't make it easy for the grabbers; utilise the law as it is currently written.
    After the case of ammunition for each firearm is gone, then what?
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    16,314
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Purchase proactively. Preempt prohibition. Consider buying a case of ammunition for each firearm you own; without food, they're scrap metal. Don't wait until regulations limit your ability.

    When your FFL03 expires, burn your bound book. If it's still worthwhile afterward, apply for a new one and start afresh.

    Don't make it easy for the grabbers; utilise the law as it is currently written.
    SOP for serious collectors since '68.;)
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    8,752
    I will hope for no changes, but I won't put any money on that.

    So I guess what are the odds if it is changed if they retro remove stuff that are already C&R now?

    Or they change qualification (like no semi-autos unless a museum curator says it is C&R and then only that single item).

    Or change the date, but grandfather everything currently C&R. sorry, it is 100 years now. So no new C&Rs for the next 50 years.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    3,916
    Catonsville
    Expect them to put a hard date to the cutoff for C&R, no different than that for antiques. I have been expecting this over time as we started creeping into far more "modern" firearms. In less than 10 years, baring no rule changes, my HK P9S will qualify as C&R. That's something a typical politician and the Bloomberg nanny crew cannot abide.
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    4,632
    Anne Arundel County
    I see a potential business model for otherwise underfunded museums to issue C&R certifications declaring specific firearms as historically significant, for a fee.
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    22,340
    Expect them to put a hard date to the cutoff for C&R, no different than that for antiques. I have been expecting this over time as we started creeping into far more "modern" firearms. In less than 10 years, baring no rule changes, my HK P9S will qualify as C&R. That's something a typical politician and the Bloomberg nanny crew cannot abide.
    IMO more than a few HKs belong on the C&R list; P9S for roller block delay mechanism, P7 for innovative squeeze cocking, VP70 as first polymer frame pistol. They may hate us, but they make innovative toys.

    I'd include the Polish P83 as well, based on Combloc's brilliant in-depth description of its features.
    https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/polish-p83-more-than-meets-the-eye.176043/
     

    Melnic

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    13,148
    HoCo
    Its not clear to me the threat. So they would change the qualification for what is C&R? Get rid of the 50 year qualification? Freeze it?
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    22,340
    Yes. Set some arbitrary date, and freeze it.
    Set a different arbitrary date and freeze it. Admittedly, 50 yrs is a moveable feast.

    Not great, but better than eliminating the license. Lots of games they can play. We have far more government than we need, and far less rigor in dealing with the laws we have.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    16,314
    Socialist State of Maryland
    You might have to go back to the GCA of '68 to see if the C&R specs where written into the law itself. I seem to remember that the NRA pushed the progun pols to get the C&R provision into the law.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    3,916
    Catonsville
    Let's see... I have enough inventory to easily match most if not all museums. I just need to meet the condition that my museum is owned & operated by local government. "Today I identify as the municipality of mawkiestan". There, done, easy peezy!
     

    cantstop

    . . .
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2012
    6,586
    HoCo
    The CMP not transferring 50 y/o Colt 1911 handguns to C&R holders was the start of this nonsense. Picking an arbitrary date would mean they could set 1910 and tell C&R holders they are no different than PMF owners in Maryland.
     

    THier

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 3, 2010
    4,998
    Muscleville
    Didn't read the entire thing,

    BUT,

    remember when bump stocks were being outlawed? Many said "it doesn't affect me", then 80%?
    They WILL nibble away until nothing left.
    We need to stick together!!!!!
     

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