ATF: No Such Thing As A Free SBR

[outrider58]

Yea but the whole point of filling a form 1 is so that you can replace the brace with a stock legally. Once you put the stock on an SBR it has to be 29” or longer but it isn’t a braced pistol.

The OP seemed to suggest that the ATF said you can’t replace the brave with a stock once the Form 1 is approved.

The problem is, and the main reason I decided not to participate in the 'amnesty stamp'(call it what you will), there has been no clear literature dealing with differing over all length discrepancies.

But no, the whole point in filing a form 1 was to hopefully keep the AFT off your doorstep.

 

[AlBeight]

Yea but the whole point of filling a form 1 is so that you can replace the brace with a stock legally. Once you put the stock on an SBR it has to be 29” or longer but it isn’t a braced pistol.

The OP seemed to suggest that the ATF said you can’t replace the brave with a stock once the Form 1 is approved.

The whole point of filling out the form 1 is to legally keep possession of the original braced pistol, in the ATF’s eyes as an “SBR”. However, in the eyes of the State of MD, the SBR has to be 29”, and if you can’t reach that the State still is okay calling it a “braced pistol”, exactly as it was previously legally purchased or built. The ATF doesn’t care how long it is, it’s now a legal SBR that doesn’t have to be turned in or destroyed to satisfy the ATF. You just can’t put a true stock on it or vertical grips, etc... unless you can make the 26” MD length.

You had to FIRST go thru the process to keep it a legal weapon (unless you were a “will not comply” guy), before addressing the possible future modifications under the Maryland statutes. Definitely a crazy situation, and I’m glad it’s over (allegedly).

 

[outrider58]

The whole point of filling out the form 1 is to legally keep possession of the original braced pistol, in the ATF’s eyes as an “SBR”. However, in the eyes of the State of MD, the SBR has to be 29”, and if you can’t reach that the State still is okay calling it a “braced pistol”, exactly as it was previously legally purchased or built. The ATF doesn’t care how long it is, it’s now a legal SBR that doesn’t have to be turned in or destroyed to satisfy the ATF. You just can’t put a true stock on it or vertical grips, etc... unless you can make the 26” MD length.

You had to FIRST go thru the process to keep it a legal weapon (unless you were a “will not comply” guy), before addressing the possible future modifications under the Maryland statutes. Definitely a crazy situation, and I’m glad it’s over (allegedly).

Except, 26" is not a legal length for an SBR in Md., so you are forced to keep a brace on it if OAL will be <29".

 

[AlBeight]

Except, 26" is not a legal length for an SBR in Md., so you are forced to keep a brace on it if OAL will be <29".

Correct, as long as you’re ATF legal, it’s the old “no harm no foul” for the braced pistol in MD. The dumb part was having to re-establish your previously legal weapon under the ATF dumb rulings, that seems to now be in jeopardy of being overturned.

I can leave my 3 braced pistols as braced pistols/ATF legal SBR’s, or easily MD SBR the one and figure out how to MD SBR the other two. Although, I think I’m done with the foolishness for a good while, I bought them as braced pistols, they can remain braced pistols as far as I’m concerned.

 

[outrider58]

Correct, as long as you’re ATF legal, it’s the old “no harm no foul” for the braced pistol in MD. The dumb part was having to re-establish your previously legal weapon under the ATF dumb rulings, that seems to now be in jeopardy of being overturned.

I can leave my 3 braced pistols as braced pistols/ATF legal SBR’s, or easily MD SBR the one and figure out how to MD SBR the other two. Although, I think I’m done with the foolishness for a good while, I bought them as braced pistols, they can remain braced pistols as far as I’m concerned.

 

[ken792]

Yea but the whole point of filling a form 1 is so that you can replace the brace with a stock legally. Once you put the stock on an SBR it has to be 29” or longer but it isn’t a braced pistol.

The OP seemed to suggest that the ATF said you can’t replace the brave with a stock once the Form 1 is approved.

Again, federal vs state. The whole point of filing the Form 1 is so the federal revenuers don’t shoot your dog. MD doesn’t care whether the braced pistol has a Form 1 or what it’s OAL is.

I know a few people who filed a Form 1 but continue to have a brace on their SBR while in MD and swap to a stock with a less than 29” OAL outside of MD.

 

[swinokur]

5th Circuit in a 2-1 decision says pistol brace rule unconstitional

 

[Growler215]

I know a few people who filed a Form 1 but continue to have a brace on their SBR while in MD and swap to a stock with a less than 29” OAL outside of MD.

No skin off my nose, but don't you have to file a Form 5320.20 with ATF to get permission to take an SBR across state lines?

 

[outrider58]

No skin off my nose, but don't you have to file a Form 5320.20 with ATF to get permission to take an SBR across state lines?

Yes

 

[ken792]

No skin off my nose, but don't you have to file a Form 5320.20 with ATF to get permission to take an SBR across state lines?

Yep, they have those too for taking stuff out of MD.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

For state regulatory purposes, SBRs are simultaneously handguns and rifles. Semi auto SBRs are considered subject to the state’s 29” OAL of the assault long gun ban’s copycat definition.

MSP issued an advisory that they consider braced SBRs to remain purely handguns under state law. That’s why braced SBRs are not subject to the state’s 29” OAL.

I missed all that. Thats some stupid sh@t... Its a pistol and a Short Barrel Rifle but not a centerfire semiautomatic rifle.... Oh I see. Only in MD.

 

[Doctor_M]

 

[retired040]

From Maryland State Police Licensing Division Bulletin LD-FRU-15-004, dated August 14, 2015:

After October 1, 2015, dealers will no longer be required to submit SBR/SBS to the Handgun Roster Board for review and inclusion on the Handgun Roster, as previously required in Advisory LD-FRS-14-002. Public Safety Title 5-101 (n) handgun means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length. Dealers are reminded that a Maryland State Police Application and Affidavit to Purchase a Regulated Firearm (77R) is, and will remain, required for SBR’s/SBS’s with a barrel under 16” in length. Semi-automatic SBR’s with (1) an overall length of less than 29” and/or (2) any two of the following: (1) a folding stock; (2) a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or (3) a flash suppressor is a “copycat weapon” under provisions of the Firearm Safety Act of 2013 and is not eligible for sale to the general public unless the purchaser had a purchase order for, or a completed application to purchase, the firearm prior to October 1, 2013. Bulletin LD-FRU-15-004

So if the barrel OAL is less than 29" but doesn't have two evil features, it's not a copycat so should be good?

 

[ken792]

So if the barrel is less than 29" but doesn't have two evil features, it's not a copycat so should be good?

No, the OAL provision in the law exists separately from the evil feature provision. The advisory says “and/or” as well.

 

[outrider58]

From Maryland State Police Licensing Division Bulletin LD-FRU-15-004, dated August 14, 2015:

After October 1, 2015, dealers will no longer be required to submit SBR/SBS to the Handgun Roster Board for review and inclusion on the Handgun Roster, as previously required in Advisory LD-FRS-14-002. Public Safety Title 5-101 (n) handgun means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length. Dealers are reminded that a Maryland State Police Application and Affidavit to Purchase a Regulated Firearm (77R) is, and will remain, required for SBR’s/SBS’s with a barrel under 16” in length. Semi-automatic SBR’s with (1) an overall length of less than 29” and/or (2) any two of the following: (1) a folding stock; (2) a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or (3) a flash suppressor is a “copycat weapon” under provisions of the Firearm Safety Act of 2013 and is not eligible for sale to the general public unless the purchaser had a purchase order for, or a completed application to purchase, the firearm prior to October 1, 2013. Bulletin LD-FRU-15-004

So if the barrel is less than 29" but doesn't have two evil features, it's not a copycat so should be good?

You mean a barrel length shorter tan 16".

 

[outrider58]

I missed all that. Thats some stupid sh@t... Its a pistol and a Short Barrel Rifle but not a centerfire semiautomatic rifle.... Oh I see. Only in MD.

 

[retired040]

You mean a barrel length shorter tan 16".

Yes...

 

[Bob A]

Now that the FPC has won an injunction against ATF over the braced pistol regulation, and since I'm now a member of FPC in good standing, am I allowed to wander over to the range with a braced pistol without facing the possibility of jail time -- at least while the injunction is in effect?

Or is it limited to whatever circuit(s) in which the injunction was granted?

 

[slsc98]

“You’re always innocent, until proven broke.”

 

[thomfantomas]

Now that the FPC has won an injunction against ATF over the braced pistol regulation, and since I'm now a member of FPC in good standing, am I allowed to wander over to the range with a braced pistol without facing the possibility of jail time -- at least while the injunction is in effect?

Or is it limited to whatever circuit(s) in which the injunction was granted?

I did no jail for me,just lots of questions by individuals at the range(even the rso).