ATF Coming After Firearms with Stabilizing Braces

[Kharn]

I'm sure it's been brought up but I'm lazy. What about pistols that can't meet 29" in maryland?

Short answer: ATF DGAF. Make it a rifle, Find some way to make it a 29" SBR, make it an unbraced pistol, turn it in to a government agency, or destroy it. See pages 223 and 224.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Short answer: ATF DGAF. Make it a rifle, Find some way to make it a 29" SBR, make it an unbraced pistol, turn it in to a government agency, or destroy it. See pages 223 and 224.

Shorter reply: That's one reason for the lawsuits.

 

[TinCuda]

I think this ATF brace rule will be good in the long run. Once the dust settles, and the rule is squashed, there will be a fantastically strong precedent to never mess with it again.

 

[inkd]

I think this ATF brace rule will be good in the long run. Once the dust settles, and the rule is squashed, there will be a fantastically strong precedent to never mess with it again.

I know it just hit the streets. But, are there any groups who have talked about filing? Do they have to wait until it's actually signed into law?

 

[jrumann59]

I know it just hit the streets. But, are there any groups who have talked about filing? Do they have to wait until it's actually signed into law?

I think it needs to hit the federal register before SAF and others can jiggy with it.

 

[alucard0822]

I think this ATF brace rule will be good in the long run. Once the dust settles, and the rule is squashed, there will be a fantastically strong precedent to never mess with it again

SBR = Rifle in common use, NFA is unconstitutional burden on the 2A. This "rule" aka law by fiat is a crossroad, if it stands, then ANYTHING goes, and our 2A rights are at the whims of an unelected burocrat. If it is just quietly dropped a few years down the road, after all the damage is done aka bump stocks, then next one will be worse. If this ends up getting part or all of the NFA tossed as unconstitutional, you would think they might stop as it's not worth challenging the status quo, but I doubt it.

 

[IronEye]

Estimates are all over the place on braced pistols. Anywhere from 10 million to 40 million.
Seems that they easily meet the Heller test since they are in "common use".

 

[5string]

Link to the eform: https://eforms.atf.gov/login;referrer=/home

Pasted directly from it: "To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023."

 

[redsandman6]

Link to the eform: https://eforms.atf.gov/login;referrer=/home

Pasted directly from it: "To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023."

everything i read was that the braced firearm needs to be in the trust prior to the date that it is published in the Federal Register. i haven't seen when it will be published.

 

[jrumann59]

Link to the eform: https://eforms.atf.gov/login;referrer=/home

Pasted directly from it: "To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023."

Honestly a lawsuit against this is probably easy to win because I don't think many people put non NFA items in an NFA trust. Since they sort of put this out later in the day on Jan 13. It was impossible for anyone to even start the transfer.

 

[redsandman6]

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/eformone-externalguidancewithqapdf/download

27. CAN I REGISTER MY SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE QUIPPED WITH A “STABILIZING BRACE” PURSUANT TO ATF FINAL RULE 2021R-08F TO MY TRUST? Answer: In short, a trust may not register a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” that is a short-barreled rifle pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F unless the trust can establish through documentary evidence that the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Under the final rule, the Attorney General has authorized a tax forbearance that allows current possessors of firearms equipped with a “stabilizing brace” that meet the definition of “rifle” and have a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches to register the firearms tax-free. A current possessor is a person who possessed the firearm with an attached “stabilizing brace” prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Accordingly, any trust that seeks to register a firearm with an attached “stabilizing brace” that is a short-barreled rifle pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F must include with the eForm 1 application evidence that establishes the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. This evidence will generally include the signed, dated, and notarized terms of the trust or trust schedules that list or provide a description of the property held in trust. For trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published Federal Register.

this is what i found nothing says Jan 13 2023. but i cant find when its actually being published either

Regulations.gov

www.regulations.gov

nothing is posted here about the rule either

 

[alucard0822]

Saw one dude calculate that given there have been about 40 million braces sold, even if it took the current ATF staff that processes form 1s 5 minutes to complete the approval, it would take over 350 years to process all of them if everyone complies.

 

[Chauchat]

The daily federal register. The rule just came out on Friday and it always takes a couple of days for things to get posted in the register. And with today being a holiday I am thinking Wednesday or Thursday will be the day it shows up. Going to the FR right now as I type this it shows the Register for January 17th.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[jrumann59]

Saw one dude calculate that given there have been about 40 million braces sold, even if it took the current ATF staff that processes form 1s 5 minutes to complete the approval, it would take over 350 years to process all of them if everyone complies.

40,000,000 x 200 = 8 billion dollars in revenue given away plus how many billions to go through each form 1

 

[redsandman6]

when you log into the efile system then a message pops up with this wording

To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.

Can I register my "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to my trust pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F?

A trust may not register a “stabilizing brace” equipped firearm pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F unless the trust can establish through documentary evidence that the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.

Under the final rule, the Attorney General has authorized a tax forbearance that allows current possessors of "stabilizing brace" equipped firearms that meet the definition of "rifle" and have a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches to register the firearms tax-free. A current possessor is a person1 who possessed the "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm prior to January 13, 2023.

Accordingly, any trust that seeks to register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F must include with the eForm 1 application evidence that establishes the trust is the current possessor of the "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm, and possessed it before January 13, 2023. This evidence will generally include the signed, dated, and notarized terms of the trust or trust schedules that list or provide a description of the property held in trust. Accordingly, for trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust before January 13, 2023. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.

How can a current possessor who is an individual register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to a trust or other legal entity?

A "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm that is currently possessed by an individual after January 13, 2023 can only be registered to that individual pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F. Any individual possessing a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm in his or her individual capacity who wants to register the firearm to a trust or other legal entity must first register the firearm as an individual within the 120-day tax forbearance period, then submit a tax-paid ATF Form 4 transferring the firearm from the individual to the trust or other legal entity.

[1] For purposes of the NFA, the term "person" is defined as "an individual, a trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation." 26 U.S.C. § 7701(a)(1).

 

[redsandman6]

to get one into a trust it will still cost $200 on a form 4 after you transfer it free as a individual.

or when all of the 40 million or so that get registered as individuals have to be transferred when the owner dies the atf will get $200 for each of them for that transfer. they are going to get that money one way or another it is a matter of time.

 

[5string]

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/eformone-externalguidancewithqapdf/download

27. CAN I REGISTER MY SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE QUIPPED WITH A “STABILIZING BRACE” PURSUANT TO ATF FINAL RULE 2021R-08F TO MY TRUST? Answer: In short, a trust may not register a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” that is a short-barreled rifle pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F unless the trust can establish through documentary evidence that the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Under the final rule, the Attorney General has authorized a tax forbearance that allows current possessors of firearms equipped with a “stabilizing brace” that meet the definition of “rifle” and have a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches to register the firearms tax-free. A current possessor is a person who possessed the firearm with an attached “stabilizing brace” prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Accordingly, any trust that seeks to register a firearm with an attached “stabilizing brace” that is a short-barreled rifle pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F must include with the eForm 1 application evidence that establishes the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. This evidence will generally include the signed, dated, and notarized terms of the trust or trust schedules that list or provide a description of the property held in trust. For trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published Federal Register.

this is what i found nothing says Jan 13 2023. but i cant find when its actually being published either

Regulations.gov

www.regulations.gov

nothing is posted here about the rule either

Open the link I posted, start the process and you will soon see it.

 

[Bob A]

I was thinking about this too. I’m thinking if you form 1 it with federal it would still be considered a pistol in MD because that is how it is registered on the 77R……

If you built it as a pistol from a new lower receiver, it would have been registered as "Other," not as a pistol. It is undifferentiated at that point, neither fish nor fowl.

 

[FrankAR15]

If you built it as a pistol from a new lower receiver, it would have been registered as "Other," not as a pistol. It is undifferentiated at that point, neither fish nor fowl.

There were plenty of pistols bought straight from the manufacturer with a max OAL of 23.5” with shortened modified bolt carriers and buffers which I think would be pointless to try and modify….. not sure what these people can do.

Springfield Armory

With a huge selection of handguns and rifles, Springfield Armory is the premier manufacturer of quality firearms for concealed carry, home defense, hunting and competitive shooting.

www.springfield-armory.com

 

[outrider58]

Link to the eform: https://eforms.atf.gov/login;referrer=/home

Pasted directly from it: "To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023."

It's just another road block. No one was putting pistols into NFA trusts.
Fvck them.