ATF Coming After Firearms with Stabilizing Braces

[outrider58]

Only if you hold them up to your shoulder.

The tennis balls on my, um, pistols … are there so my service Labrador will be happy fetching my gun for me in an emergency.

...then you'll want to remove them before any possible boating mishap...

 

[TinCuda]

I have heard some folks say that they will not comply with the new pistol brace rule.

I believe it's important to note that those same people that have pistol braces HAVE BEEN COMPLYING! Had they not, they would have had regular stocks all along. Making felons of folks who have been TRYING TO FOLLOW THE LAW is nothing short of heinous.

It's not my point to expose hypocrisy in the shooting community, it's my point to express the ATF's despotic fail of honor.

 

[danimalw]

I have heard some folks say that they will not comply with the new pistol brace rule.

I believe it's important to note that those same people that have pistol braces HAVE BEEN COMPLYING! Had they not, they would have had regular stocks all along. Making felons of folks TRYING TO FOLLOW THE LAW is nothing short of heinous.

It's not my point to expose hypocrisy in the shooting community, it's my point to express the ATF's despotic fail of honor.

Not picking a fight, just that I disagree about the complying..

the people that had braces on firearms were abiding by the law (had they put stocks on, would have violated that law).. ATF isn't changing the law (passed by Congress), but instead ATF is implementing a rule and changing the definitions in the law (that they do not have authority to do so). So those that say that they will not comply with new rule are technically are still following the law that was passed by Congress.

I agree and I think we all agree what the ATF is attempting is heinous.

 

[jcutonilli]

The final rule is available for public inspection on the Federal Register. This is the last step before it is officially published tomorrow.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[Kharn]

Here is a link if anyone wants to read it. I'm surprised these don't have to be engraved but that's how I read it. Also says we may use any stock we want after approval.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-updated12523pdf/download

They are waiving the engraving to reduce the cost to the public. Otherwise it would be $40ish times 3 to 7 million pistols, that would be $120 to $280 million.

 

[TinCuda]

Although the NRA has had a dubious reputation lately, they have committed to support SB Tactical financially and with lawyers to provide legal aid.

 

[Inigoes]

BATFE expects over half of owners to self report.

ATF downplays impact of new gun ruling, expects 60% to register AR 'pistols'

President Joe Biden’s gun agency, which on Tuesday is expected to unleash the broadest gun control since the 1994 ban on modern sporting rifles, is downplaying the impact of its action in a new report.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[fishgutzy]

Only if you hold them up to your shoulder.

The tennis balls on my, um, pistols … are there so my service Labrador will be happy fetching my gun for me in an emergency.

Then there is also the stand up gimbal belt for fishing. Strap to the shoulder.

 

[wbw2123]

The final rule is available for public inspection on the Federal Register. This is the last step before it is officially published tomorrow.

Federal Register :: Request Access

Thanks for the updates.

If you've already got title I braced pistols on a 77r and in a trust, what's the downside to getting a free stamp for guns they already know about? Seems to me registration of 100million sbr would put them squarely in the common use category and offer another avenue to challenge the nfa?

 

[bmorestance]

It seems that most of y'all wont even be able to register in MD due to the 29" OAL.
What you thinking of that? Most of the AR Pistols I see are 7.5" and 10.5" barrels.
Plus with the 12.5/13.5 LOP, I dont think many will get through.
Some builds will be good depending on how its setup.
Let the wind come through.

 

[outrider58]

It seems that most of y'all wont even be able to register in MD due to the 29" OAL.
What you thinking of that? Most of the AR Pistols I see are 7.5" and 10.5" barrels.
Plus with the 12.5 LOP, I dont think many will get through.
Some builds will be good depending on how its setup.
Let the wind come through.

A 10.5" barrel will work now with the advent of extended buttbads and longer buffer tubes, at least as far as AR-PCs go.

As for 12.5" LOPs go, if that is the average for braces, what kind of knucklehead is going to keep a pistol brace on a legal SBR?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

It seems that most of y'all wont even be able to register in MD due to the 29" OAL.
What you thinking of that? Most of the AR Pistols I see are 7.5" and 10.5" barrels.
Plus with the 12.5 LOP, I dont think many will get through.
Some builds will be good depending on how its setup.
Let the wind come through.

7.5" won't. 10.5" with a 6 position buffer tube and a Magpul CTR will get over 29" OAL. Once you have the stamp, you can put a stock on it.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

It seems that most of y'all wont even be able to register in MD due to the 29" OAL.
What you thinking of that? Most of the AR Pistols I see are 7.5" and 10.5" barrels.
Plus with the 12.5 LOP, I dont think many will get through.
Some builds will be good depending on how its setup.
Let the wind come through.

7.5" won't. 10.5" with a 6 position buffer tube and a Magpul CTR will get over 29" OAL. Once you have the stamp, you can put a stock on it.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

It seems that most of y'all wont even be able to register in MD due to the 29" OAL.
What you thinking of that? Most of the AR Pistols I see are 7.5" and 10.5" barrels.
Plus with the 12.5 LOP, I dont think many will get through.
Some builds will be good depending on how its setup.
Let the wind come through.

7.5" won't. 10.5" with a 6 position buffer tube and a Magpul CTR will get over 29" OAL. Once you have the stamp, you can put a stock on it.

 

[wbw2123]

Sure, some braced pistols are currently non-compliant with the 29" law. Let's look at the likelyhood of certain events happening.

1. Another forbearance of tax. We haven't seen this on any large scale since the machine gun amnesty. Odds of it happening again are slim to none.

2. The nfa is abolished. Nope... Big nope, I hope but certainly don't expect this to happen in my lifetime, though a couple hundred million sbr would go a long way to making the common use argument under Heller and Bruen for a court court battle to eliminate sbr.

3. The rule is struck. Are they going to rescind the forbearance stamps and cancel pending form 1's submitted during that period? Maybe, or maybe they leave the submissions and approvals on the books anyway as it would be a pain to do otherwise.

4. The courts rule against Maryland's 29" rule. It may take a few years, but this seems like an inevitability under Bruen. We've waited a decade since 2013 for winds to be in our favor and after another donation to MSI I'm feeling that this is more likely than not.

So where does that leave a descending brace afficiando? Certain you can file under forbearance and include a compliant length that you intend to make sure sbr. File with possession, remove the brace, add a cap, and when the form 1 is approved decide to either modify to 29" or leave it as a non-braced pistol awaiting the removal of the 29" rule.

The other options are F-the-ATF with full non compliance or remove the brace. If you're going to remove the brace anyway, and it's already on a 77r, they know you have it, why not file for the free stamp?

I'm by no means anything kind of expert and certainly leery of free candy, but this feels like we're going to probably win in the long run either way. It's just too egregious. We'll have to wait for the interpretations when they publish, but maybe a couple dozen free stamps would make you feel better about all this BS and help provide standing to further reclaim our rights.

I dunno, I haven't made up my mind but will definitely try to position myself to have all options available over the next 120 days.

 

[5string]

Sure, some braced pistols are currently non-compliant with the 29" law. Let's look at the likelyhood of certain events happening.

1. Another forbearance of tax. We haven't seen this on any large scale since the machine gun amnesty. Odds of it happening again are slim to none.

2. The nfa is abolished. Nope... Big nope, I hope but certainly don't expect this to happen in my lifetime, though a couple hundred million sbr would go a long way to making the common use argument under Heller and Bruen for a court court battle to eliminate sbr.

3. The rule is struck. Are they going to rescind the forbearance stamps and cancel pending form 1's submitted during that period? Maybe, or maybe they leave the submissions and approvals on the books anyway as it would be a pain to do otherwise.

4. The courts rule against Maryland's 29" rule. It may take a few years, but this seems like an inevitability under Bruen. We've waited a decade since 2013 for winds to be in our favor and after another donation to MSI I'm feeling that this is more likely than not.

So where does that leave a descending brace afficiando? Certain you can file under forbearance and include a compliant length that you intend to make sure sbr. File with possession, remove the brace, add a cap, and when the form 1 is approved decide to either modify to 29" or leave it as a non-braced pistol awaiting the removal of the 29" rule.

The other options are F-the-ATF with full non compliance or remove the brace. If you're going to remove the brace anyway, and it's already on a 77r, they know you have it, why not file for the free stamp?

I'm by no means anything kind of expert and certainly leery of free candy, but this feels like we're going to probably win in the long run either way. It's just too egregious. We'll have to wait for the interpretations when they publish, but maybe a couple dozen free stamps would make you feel better about all this BS and help provide standing to further reclaim our rights.

I dunno, I haven't made up my mind but will definitely try to position myself to have all options available over the next 120 days.

One option is gone as soon as the rule is in the registry. To get the free stamp for a pistol owned by a trust, the trust must have owned the gun prior to the final rule hitting the registry.

 

[wbw2123]

One option is gone as soon as the rule is in the registry. To get the free stamp for a pistol owned by a trust, the trust must have owned the gun prior to the final rule hitting the registry.

Yes, that's true, but it's been forecast for weeks (even with the misrepresentation of when the trust must own the firearms) so anyone that wanted to could have gotten their title I stuff into a revocable trust. I'm not necessarily endorsing this, but there are plenty of free and $60 online trusts out there that would get you over the line if you didn't already have one. You can always use a local estate attorney to rewrite the trust later for better protection and compliance. The AFT doesn't care, they just want proof of the trust existence and the possession of the firearms before the rule. They don't analyze the trust for legality and largely don't care if you, within the law, rewrite it the day after your stamp arrives.

For that matter, if you're friends with a notary you probably have another 12 hours to do just that.

 

[5string]

Yes, that's true, but it's been forecast for weeks (even with the misrepresentation of when the trust must own the firearms) so anyone that wanted to could have gotten their title I stuff into a revocable trust. I'm not necessarily endorsing this, but there are plenty of free and $60 online trusts out there that would get you over the line if you didn't already have one. You can always use a local estate attorney to rewrite the trust later for better protection and compliance. The AFT doesn't care, they just want proof of the trust existence and the possession of the firearms before the rule. They don't analyze the trust for legality and largely don't care if you, within the law, rewrite it the day after your stamp arrives.

For that matter, if you're friends with a notary you probably have another 12 hours to do just that.

The only notary I knew that would have done that was buried about 4 years ago so I had to get my stuff done before the deadline.

 

[wbw2123]

Well you still have 12 hours until the deadline. They are publishing it tomorrow- the draft was posted today.

 

[5string]

Well you still have 12 hours until the deadline. They are publishing it tomorrow- the draft was posted today.

That's why I posted what I did. I thought there might be someone who didn't know. My stuff has been sent in already.