A question about stores/restaurants that don't allow firearms.

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  • BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    Can you legally leave your firearm in the car while going into these places of business?
    Nothing in the laws address the question, unless a minor (under 16) "could/would" access the firearm.

    And any teenager can easily break into ANY vehicle, so... technically, leaving a firearm unattended in a vehicle could be a misdemeanor offense. Maybe. Read the statute below.

    -------------

    2010 Maryland Code
    CRIMINAL LAW
    TITLE 4 - WEAPON CRIMES
    Subtitle 1 - General Provisions
    Section 4-104 - Child's access to firearms.​

    § 4-104. Child's access to firearms.

    (a) Definitions.-

    (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.

    (2) "Ammunition" means a cartridge, shell, or other device containing explosive or incendiary material designed and intended for use in a firearm.

    (3) "Child" means an individual under the age of 16 years.

    (4) (i) "Firearm" means a handgun, rifle, shotgun, short-barreled rifle, or short-barreled shotgun, as those terms are defined in § 4-201 of this title, or any other firearm.

    (ii) "Firearm" does not include an antique firearm as defined in § 4-201 of this title.

    (b) Exceptions.- This section does not apply if:

    (1) the child's access to a firearm is supervised by an individual at least 18 years old;

    (2) the child's access to a firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry;

    (3) the firearm is in the possession or control of a law enforcement officer while the officer is engaged in official duties; or

    (4) the child has a certificate of firearm and hunter safety issued under § 10-301.1 of the Natural Resources Article.

    (c) Prohibited.- A person may not store or leave a loaded firearm in a location where the person knew or should have known that an unsupervised child would gain access to the firearm.

    (d) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $1,000.

    (e) Effect of violation.-

    (1) A violation of this section may not:

    (i) be considered evidence of negligence;

    (ii) be considered evidence of contributory negligence;

    (iii) limit liability of a party or an insurer; or

    (iv) diminish recovery for damages arising out of the ownership, maintenance, or operation of a firearm or ammunition.

    (2) A party, witness, or lawyer may not refer to a violation of this section during a trial of a civil action that involves property damage, personal injury, or death.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    ….. does that mean wear and carry permit holders can now store weapons securely in their vehicle
    Please show us a gun lock, cable lock, car vault or movable safe that CANNOT be broken into by a 10 year old with a smartphone and a youtube account.

    "Securely" is the tricky part. Is the vehicle under direct observation from all directions, and guarded by an armed responder within 15 seconds from the vehicle?

    It's your call, your car/truck, your property.

    Thefts from auto is the leading source for stolen guns in the black market.

    In cities that report crime data to the FBI:

    • On average, at least one gun is stolen from a car every 15 minutes.
    • Thefts from cars divert guns away from the legal market, making them particularly dangerous.
    • A decade ago, less than a quarter of gun thefts were from cars; in 2020, over half were.
    • 2019–2020 saw recent history’s biggest spike in gun thefts from cars, in unison with spikes in gun sales and homicides, and the speed of crime gun recoveries.
    • Cars parked at residences (driveways, outside homes, etc.) are the most common source of stolen guns, demonstrating the importance of securely storing guns at all times and locations.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    39,587
    Glen Burnie
    Lawyers can make up whatever they want when it comes to Civil Law. It doesn't have to connect with any criminal law either. All they have to do is get a jury to believe that the person caused them injury and walah, you're broke.
    Yeah. I don't think that there can be a civil lawsuit under that circumstance.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    12,480
    That's exactly what Alec Baldwins cinematographer's family is doing. They are suing everyone attached to the film.

    .
    Well technically "everyone" attached to the film carries some burden. But ultimately most of it rests on Alec Baldwin.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    12,480
    Nothing in the laws address the question, unless a minor (under 16) "could/would" access the firearm.

    And any teenager can easily break into ANY vehicle, so... technically, leaving a firearm unattended in a vehicle could be a misdemeanor offense. Maybe. Read the statute below.

    -------------

    2010 Maryland Code​

    CRIMINAL LAW​

    TITLE 4 - WEAPON CRIMES​

    Subtitle 1 - General Provisions​

    Section 4-104 - Child's access to firearms.​

    § 4-104. Child's access to firearms.

    (a) Definitions.-

    (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.

    (2) "Ammunition" means a cartridge, shell, or other device containing explosive or incendiary material designed and intended for use in a firearm.

    (3) "Child" means an individual under the age of 16 years.

    (4) (i) "Firearm" means a handgun, rifle, shotgun, short-barreled rifle, or short-barreled shotgun, as those terms are defined in § 4-201 of this title, or any other firearm.

    (ii) "Firearm" does not include an antique firearm as defined in § 4-201 of this title.

    (b) Exceptions.- This section does not apply if:

    (1) the child's access to a firearm is supervised by an individual at least 18 years old;

    (2) the child's access to a firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry;

    (3) the firearm is in the possession or control of a law enforcement officer while the officer is engaged in official duties; or

    (4) the child has a certificate of firearm and hunter safety issued under § 10-301.1 of the Natural Resources Article.

    (c) Prohibited.- A person may not store or leave a loaded firearm in a location where the person knew or should have known that an unsupervised child would gain access to the firearm.

    (d) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $1,000.

    (e) Effect of violation.-

    (1) A violation of this section may not:

    (i) be considered evidence of negligence;

    (ii) be considered evidence of contributory negligence;

    (iii) limit liability of a party or an insurer; or

    (iv) diminish recovery for damages arising out of the ownership, maintenance, or operation of a firearm or ammunition.

    (2) A party, witness, or lawyer may not refer to a violation of this section during a trial of a civil action that involves property damage, personal injury, or death.
    So if a teen breaks into you house where your other gun is and takes it how is that any different.
     

    Tower43

    USMC - 0311
    Jul 6, 2010
    2,364
    Lusby, MD
    “My feeling is if an establishment resents the exercising of a Constitutional right...I take my business elsewhere...which is my right. Vote with your feet”

    As it’s the businesses right to enforce its policies And not get hassled for it!
    But they don't have a right to infringe on 2A..... at least if you break it down....
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    So if a teen breaks into you house where your other gun is and takes it how is that any different.
    For all intents and purposes, the risk to a firearm unattended in a vehicle is GREATER than a gun stored in a vault or safe at home (especially if your home is alarmed with 24/7 monitoring).
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    12,480
    For all intents and purposes, the risk to a firearm unattended in a vehicle is GREATER than a gun stored in a vault or safe at home (especially if your home is alarmed with 24/7 monitoring).
    That is assuming you keep your night stand gun in a safe or a vault. A lot of what ifs and very little definitives. But hey what do I know ever since MD got W&C you have been nothing but a keyboard lawyer.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    22,655
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    I've carried everywhere that I did before I had a permit in my every day way for years now, OWB with just a shirt over it and not once have had an issue.

    Has someone caught a glimpse of it when reaching for something on a high shelf or bending over to get something on a low shelf? Probably, in fact more than likely. Have I ever been SWATTED or called out by store management? Nope.

    YMMV but I doubt it.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    That is assuming you keep your night stand gun in a safe or a vault. A lot of what ifs and very little definitives. But hey what do I know ever since MD got W&C you have been nothing but a keyboard lawyer.
    If you keep your firearms loose in a drawer when your away from home all day, you may be choosing poorly. Your life, your choice.
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    86,703
    Just a scenario to think about before locking your gun in your car.

    You pull up next to a restaurant and start to go in. You see sign and decide to leave gun in lock box. Now you head back to the car and try to get the gun out without anyone noticing. You secure gun but, unknown to you, Ute has seen you acting strange and figured out what you put in car. Next he breaks into car while you are eating and snips cable and takes off with his buddy in their stolen car.

    Two weeks later you get a call that cops found your gun. Unfortunately it was at a murder scene.

    Two years later you are being sued for negligently leaving your gun in car.

    Please, think before ever leaving a gun in the car. I have had one partner and two close friends who did this and their guns were stolen. One friend was an FBI agent and the gun was an sniper rifle. Luckily they got it back but he got demoted.
    Or… as it actually happened in Texas.
    Lady saw the sign, left the pistol in her car.
    Went in and sat down to eat, with her father.

    Then helplessly watched in horror, as the person who came in to rob the restaurant, shot and killed her father.
     

    Johnny5k

    Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    779
    Crims aren't total dummies. A favorite target is sporting events. They know no one can carry inside, and there are thousands of vehicles in the lots. Some have firearm related stickers on them. High success rate for them.
     

    rbird7282

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    14,603
    Nothing in the laws address the question, unless a minor (under 16) "could/would" access the firearm.

    And any teenager can easily break into ANY vehicle, so... technically, leaving a firearm unattended in a vehicle could be a misdemeanor offense. Maybe. Read the statute below.

    -------------

    2010 Maryland Code​

    CRIMINAL LAW​

    TITLE 4 - WEAPON CRIMES​

    Subtitle 1 - General Provisions​

    Section 4-104 - Child's access to firearms.​

    § 4-104. Child's access to firearms.

    (a) Definitions.-

    (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.

    (2) "Ammunition" means a cartridge, shell, or other device containing explosive or incendiary material designed and intended for use in a firearm.

    (3) "Child" means an individual under the age of 16 years.

    (4) (i) "Firearm" means a handgun, rifle, shotgun, short-barreled rifle, or short-barreled shotgun, as those terms are defined in § 4-201 of this title, or any other firearm.

    (ii) "Firearm" does not include an antique firearm as defined in § 4-201 of this title.

    (b) Exceptions.- This section does not apply if:

    (1) the child's access to a firearm is supervised by an individual at least 18 years old;

    (2) the child's access to a firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry;

    (3) the firearm is in the possession or control of a law enforcement officer while the officer is engaged in official duties; or

    (4) the child has a certificate of firearm and hunter safety issued under § 10-301.1 of the Natural Resources Article.

    (c) Prohibited.- A person may not store or leave a loaded firearm in a location where the person knew or should have known that an unsupervised child would gain access to the firearm.

    (d) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $1,000.

    (e) Effect of violation.-

    (1) A violation of this section may not:

    (i) be considered evidence of negligence;

    (ii) be considered evidence of contributory negligence;

    (iii) limit liability of a party or an insurer; or

    (iv) diminish recovery for damages arising out of the ownership, maintenance, or operation of a firearm or ammunition.

    (2) A party, witness, or lawyer may not refer to a violation of this section during a trial of a civil action that involves property damage, personal injury, or death.
    No it wouldn’t because they’d be breaking the law to gain access to it.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    18,315
    Or… as it actually happened in Texas.
    Lady saw the sign, left the pistol in her car.
    Went in and sat down to eat, with her father.

    Then helplessly watched in horror, as the person who came in to rob the restaurant, shot and killed her father.
    I immediately thought of the same incident:
    Lusby's Shooting

    Suzanna Gratia Hupp
     

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