A day at Guntry

[Hector J Medina G]

It is not easy to find a good private range.
And those that are good, are usually expensive.

I spent a day at Guntry, in Owings Mills. I was invited by a friend who is a member there.
At $50 per hour for the first lane, even with some discount for the second/guest lane, it still was a very expensive outing.
But, you do not look into the horse's mouth when it is a gift and so, I went happily along.
It was an opportunity to compare ammo in my DIANA R22, and also a chance at shooting some pistol because I don't have one and had not shot CF in about 6 years.

I bought the ammo for the pistol shoot, the least I could do if I was borrowing a pistol AND being invited to the range. Ammo cost was not too high, I paid $25 for a box that would have cost $23 outside, so not too bad. Probably the same box could have been had for less through the net if purchased in bulk to offset the HazMat charge, but opportunities are taken.

I did like the range VERY much. Staff is professional and as low key as they can be. The Cafe is also quite nice with a good menu and not too expensive (you need to think that I am somewhat accustomed to paying $20 for a small cheeseburger at the theme parks my kids like to go, so...)
We started at 11:00 hrs with an hour at the pistol range, I was lent a SIG P365 that I enjoyed immensely. Bare bones, long first stage trigger pull, but reasonably accurate out to 15 yards (to my surprise, everyone at the range was shooting 10 yards or less).

Rapid Fire with practice ammo, groups at 15 yards were a bit under 2" and with FP ammo they opened a bit to 2¼", so not bad.
My friend was shooting a Performance Center "something" that didn't appeal to me with all the bells and whistles.
After an hour we stopped for lunch, and then went to the rifle range.

The rifle range is well equipped with electronic carriers preset to some distances (50, 75 and 100 yards), but you can set your own if you want within a yard resolution.
They also have cameras at the 50 and 100 yards in case you forgot to bring a spotter scope.

I was interested in what the performance of my little DIANA would be with Competition ammo by Aguila. Yes I know there are ultrasophisticated RF's out there, but I have no interest in spending more for a RF shot than needed; even for CF's I do not see the point in spending more than $0.50 to $1.00 per round, so I either reload or buy surplus.
In any case, I had brought a few boxes of Aguila Super Extra Std Velocity (ASE), and some of Aguila Competición ( AC - almost the same cartridge dimensionally, except for the priming used and an extra step in the manufacture). The difference in price is not substantial, and, as we will see, the performance up to 50 yards isn't either.

So, I setup and brought the POI where I wanted, I am still using the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24X50
and started shooting some 10 shot groups, first at 50 yards:

I always measure groups outside to outside (O-O) so, for more "standard" usage, you need to deduct one caliber for a C-C measurement).
On the left, the Super Extra group measures 1¼", on the right, the Competición measures the same. But it is noticeable that the ASE has more shots "clumped" into a sub-group.

Then I tried at 75 yards:

On the left, the ASE group measures 2.37" and on the right, the AC measures 2.4" (again O-O).

Same thing, it seemed like the gun WANTED to shoot better the ASE than the more elaborate and slightly more expensive AC

It is also fairly typical that changing ammo between groups sometimes needs some "settling in" of the gun because, as much we would like, the lead in each batch is always ever so slightly different than the next one.

So I shot some more groups and the capabilities kept the same, but this time I shot only with one type and then changed and shot with the other.

By the time our hour was up I had 5 cartridges left and I decided to do a serious test using the Olympic small bore target, this is a 5 shot group:

The first shot went wide to the left, and it could have been me, that opened the group to 0.95"
The remaining 4 shots went into 0.59" (O-O, or 0.37" C-C).
Properly sighted in, there would have been 4 "Tens".
Truly a remarkable result from a sporter gun using cheap ammo.

I am now seriously thinking of using a better scope, maybe a HorusVision 4-16X56, or maybe an Opteck Laser Rangefinder 10X

We'll see. Winter is High Power season anyway, LOL!

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

 

[Uncle Duke]

It is not easy to find a good private range.
And those that are good, are usually expensive.

I spent a day at Guntry, in Owings Mills. I was invited by a friend who is a member there.
At $50 per hour for the first lane, even with some discount for the second/guest lane, it still was a very expensive outing.
But, you do not look into the horse's mouth when it is a gift and so, I went happily along.
It was an opportunity to compare ammo in my DIANA R22, and also a chance at shooting some pistol because I don't have one and had not shot CF in about 6 years.

I bought the ammo for the pistol shoot, the least I could do if I was borrowing a pistol AND being invited to the range. Ammo cost was not too high, I paid $25 for a box that would have cost $23 outside, so not too bad. Probably the same box could have been had for less through the net if purchased in bulk to offset the HazMat charge, but opportunities are taken.

I did like the range VERY much. Staff is professional and as low key as they can be. The Cafe is also quite nice with a good menu and not too expensive (you need to think that I am somewhat accustomed to paying $20 for a small cheeseburger at the theme parks my kids like to go, so...)
We started at 11:00 hrs with an hour at the pistol range, I was lent a SIG P365 that I enjoyed immensely. Bare bones, long first stage trigger pull, but reasonably accurate out to 15 yards (to my surprise, everyone at the range was shooting 10 yards or less).

Rapid Fire with practice ammo, groups at 15 yards were a bit under 2" and with FP ammo they opened a bit to 2¼", so not bad.
My friend was shooting a Performance Center "something" that didn't appeal to me with all the bells and whistles.
After an hour we stopped for lunch, and then went to the rifle range.

The rifle range is well equipped with electronic carriers preset to some distances (50, 75 and 100 yards), but you can set your own if you want within a yard resolution.
They also have cameras at the 50 and 100 yards in case you forgot to bring a spotter scope.

I was interested in what the performance of my little DIANA would be with Competition ammo by Aguila. Yes I know there are ultrasophisticated RF's out there, but I have no interest in spending more for a RF shot than needed; even for CF's I do not see the point in spending more than $0.50 to $1.00 per round, so I either reload or buy surplus.
In any case, I had brought a few boxes of Aguila Super Extra Std Velocity (ASE), and some of Aguila Competición ( AC - almost the same cartridge dimensionally, except for the priming used and an extra step in the manufacture). The difference in price is not substantial, and, as we will see, the performance up to 50 yards isn't either.

So, I setup and brought the POI where I wanted, I am still using the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24X50
and started shooting some 10 shot groups, first at 50 yards:
View attachment 444665
I always measure groups outside to outside (O-O) so, for more "standard" usage, you need to deduct one caliber for a C-C measurement).
On the left, the Super Extra group measures 1¼", on the right, the Competición measures the same. But it is noticeable that the ASE has more shots "clumped" into a sub-group.

Then I tried at 75 yards:

View attachment 444668
On the left, the ASE group measures 2.37" and on the right, the AC measures 2.4" (again O-O).

Same thing, it seemed like the gun WANTED to shoot better the ASE than the more elaborate and slightly more expensive AC

It is also fairly typical that changing ammo between groups sometimes needs some "settling in" of the gun because, as much we would like, the lead in each batch is always ever so slightly different than the next one.

So I shot some more groups and the capabilities kept the same, but this time I shot only with one type and then changed and shot with the other.

By the time our hour was up I had 5 cartridges left and I decided to do a serious test using the Olympic small bore target, this is a 5 shot group:
View attachment 444671

The first shot went wide to the left, and it could have been me, that opened the group to 0.95"
The remaining 4 shots went into 0.59" (O-O, or 0.37" C-C).
Properly sighted in, there would have been 4 "Tens".
Truly a remarkable result from a sporter gun using cheap ammo.

I am now seriously thinking of using a better scope, maybe a HorusVision 4-16X56, or maybe an Opteck Laser Rangefinder 10X

We'll see. Winter is High Power season anyway, LOL!

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Curious. Of all the many and more typical .22 rimfire ammo offerings available, what prompted you to want to shoot Aguila ammunition in your Diana?

 

[Mark75H]

I didn't know about Aguila Competición. I have most of an old brick of Aguila subsonic hollow point that gets .5 or less at 100 yards in my Walther KKM; it will put dozens in a nickel at 100 yards if the wind stays calm. It's not the same subsonic hollow point they are making now. I'll swap any version of Tenex even up for a brick of Aquila from the same lot. Maybe 2 for 1.

 

[Hector J Medina G]

Curious. Of all the many and more typical .22 rimfire ammo offerings available, what prompted you to want to shoot Aguila ammunition in your Diana?

Several reasons, but to make a really long story short, let's talk of three:
1.- Aguila has earned a name among SERIOUS shooters for the last decade and a half. They make consistent ammo (as consistent as brands that cost 4 times or more as much), and when your rifle likes a specific lot, you would do well to get several cases which is more affordable if each round costs $0.03 than when it costs $0.17.
2.- Experience has taught me that brand will only take you so far. In the end, the difference is made by the guys on the floor. And I know these guys in Cuernavaca. They are serious, technically knowledgeable and very nice persons.
3.- They do not stop innovating and hear the market. Why do I started with the decade and a half?
Because years ago they tested and tested and tested. And came to the conclusion (obvious once you hear it) that the MAIN factor in the consistency of such a small cartridge as the 0.22" RF was the performance of the primer. And so, they started negotiations with Eley on the transfer of that technology (and ONLY that technology), and the results have been meritorious. I will not reveal the detail, but it is amazing in its simplicity.
They also re-vamped their entire production line in 2011.

AND they paid attention to the market.
People that wanted a 0.17" RR; they were the first to offer it. Later, others jumped on the bandwagon, but Aguila was first. The 0.17 RF M2 is now gone, but they do make the 17 HMR.
You want to feed that old 5mm Rem RF Mag? Aguila makes it.
You want quality 22 Win Mag? look at Aguila's offering.
The Sniper Subsonic round is a great round when used by knowledgeable shooters (it requires a fast twist barrel), sadly, there was a lack of shooter's education and it was maligned from the start.
Yes there are "novelty" rounds, like the "Interceptor" and the "SuperMaximum" (sort of Stingers and MiniMags), and they are OK for hunting and plinking. Again, it's what the market wants and speed (like sex) sells.
And there are other rounds that are very good. RF, CF Rifle, Pist,ol and Shotgun (have you heard of the MiniShells?).

In THIS particular case, I know that the DIANA has a tight chamber and headspace, it's part of the original specs; some sort of "target" oriented ammo was in order.

So, if you are curious, buy a box of both ASE and AC, and test in YOUR gun, the rifling may or may not like it, the chambering may or may not be appropriate, but for a few dollars you can test for yourself and find out.

If you do, keep us posted.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

 

[Hector J Medina G]

I didn't know about Aguila Competición. I have most of an old brick of Aguila subsonic hollow point that gets .5 or less at 100 yards in my Walther KKM; it will put dozens in a nickel at 100 yards if the wind stays calm. It's not the same subsonic hollow point they are making now. I'll swap any version of Tenex even up for a brick of Aquila from the same lot. Maybe 2 for 1.

IF you can, Mark
Test the current versions.
You may be pleasantly surprised.

;-)




HM

 

[Squaregrouper]

Several reasons, but to make a really long story short, let's talk of three:
1.- Aguila has earned a name among SERIOUS shooters for the last decade and a half. They make consistent ammo (as consistent as brands that cost 4 times or more as much), and when your rifle likes a specific lot, you would do well to get several cases which is more affordable if each round costs $0.03 than when it costs $0.17.
2.- Experience has taught me that brand will only take you so far. In the end, the difference is made by the guys on the floor. And I know these guys in Cuernavaca. They are serious, technically knowledgeable and very nice persons.
3.- They do not stop innovating and hear the market. Why do I started with the decade and a half?
Because years ago they tested and tested and tested. And came to the conclusion (obvious once you hear it) that the MAIN factor in the consistency of such a small cartridge as the 0.22" RF was the performance of the primer. And so, they started negotiations with Eley on the transfer of that technology (and ONLY that technology), and the results have been meritorious. I will not reveal the detail, but it is amazing in its simplicity.
They also re-vamped their entire production line in 2011.

AND they paid attention to the market.
People that wanted a 0.17" RR; they were the first to offer it. Later, others jumped on the bandwagon, but Aguila was first. The 0.17 RF M2 is now gone, but they do make the 17 HMR.
You want to feed that old 5mm Rem RF Mag? Aguila makes it.
You want quality 22 Win Mag? look at Aguila's offering.
The Sniper Subsonic round is a great round when used by knowledgeable shooters (it requires a fast twist barrel), sadly, there was a lack of shooter's education and it was maligned from the start.
Yes there are "novelty" rounds, like the "Interceptor" and the "SuperMaximum" (sort of Stingers and MiniMags), and they are OK for hunting and plinking. Again, it's what the market wants and speed (like sex) sells.
And there are other rounds that are very good. RF, CF Rifle, Pist,ol and Shotgun (have you heard of the MiniShells?).

In THIS particular case, I know that the DIANA has a tight chamber and headspace, it's part of the original specs; some sort of "target" oriented ammo was in order.

So, if you are curious, buy a box of both ASE and AC, and test in YOUR gun, the rifling may or may not like it, the chambering may or may not be appropriate, but for a few dollars you can test for yourself and find out.

If you do, keep us posted.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Very interesting perspective from a serious rimfire shooter.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Uncle Duke]

IF you can, Mark
Test the current versions.
You may be pleasantly surprised.

;-)




HM

Very interesting perspective from a serious rimfire shooter.
Thanks for the info.

Thanks indeed! What an interesting and an unexpected post of detailed observations! I'll tell you what prompted my question, as it was obvious to me that you likely had a reason other than pure chance for the ammo you took to the range.

Several years ago, I bought a Ruger 10/22. I bought it because I thought I might be the only guy on the planet that didn't own one. And I had some gift certificates to burn, and figured I'd see what all the 10/22 fuss and fanfare was about.

I took that new rifle to the range. It had fit and finish befitting an inexpensive plinker, and a trigger to match. Not a problem, as I wasn't expecting to find an Annie mistakenly shipped from the factory in a Ruger box. And while I'm not the sort to relish buying a new rifle, and then stripping it until nothing is left but the receiver, I can usually fight my way through a less than good plinker grade trigger, to see if a rifle can shoot.
With that rifle, I took 8 or 9 different brands of ammunition. I'm very well aware that rimfires (in particular) are absolutely notorious at times for having very definite ammo preferences.

My long story made shorter, the performance of 7 of those ammo brands ran the gamut from poor, to extremely poor, to "good God,I've never seen anything like that" in terms of absolutely atrocious. I won't bash the brand, but one sample in particular displayed jaw dropping results, as in the least precise performance I'd ever experienced in a rimfire rifle. And I'm not a young guy.

Brand 8 was CCI Standard. It tends to be decent ammo in most anything I've used it in. And as expected, it performed decently, by now thinking it would perform ok if anything would. It performed about where I figured this factory stock rifle would be, at 1-3/4 or perhaps a bit better at 50 yards. Think minute of squirrel.

The final ammunition I had was Aguila Super Extra. Mine was the copper washed high speed offering, rather than the standard. I chose the high speed with the semi cycling in mind thinking it may help with new action.
I don't mean their hypervelocity offering.

2 thoughts, and I'll end this already lengthy post. One, damn that primer stinks! And two, that stinking primer smell became absolutely wonderful. Smelled like Chanel to me, because that ammunition absolutely blew away everything else I had shot in that rifle. And it wasn't even close. I was nothing less than shocked by the performance of that Mexican made ammunition! I'm now sitting on quite a supply of it, and use it almost exclusively in that Ruger, although it shoots tight in my CZ rifle as well. I was pleasantly surprised, to say the least!

Appreciate the insight! In light of my thoughts above, I was curious to see what you might mention. Great post!

 

[AlBeight]

Several reasons, but to make a really long story short, let's talk of three:
1.- Aguila has earned a name among SERIOUS shooters for the last decade and a half. They make consistent ammo (as consistent as brands that cost 4 times or more as much), and when your rifle likes a specific lot, you would do well to get several cases which is more affordable if each round costs $0.03 than when it costs $0.17.
2.- Experience has taught me that brand will only take you so far. In the end, the difference is made by the guys on the floor. And I know these guys in Cuernavaca. They are serious, technically knowledgeable and very nice persons.
3.- They do not stop innovating and hear the market. Why do I started with the decade and a half?
Because years ago they tested and tested and tested. And came to the conclusion (obvious once you hear it) that the MAIN factor in the consistency of such a small cartridge as the 0.22" RF was the performance of the primer. And so, they started negotiations with Eley on the transfer of that technology (and ONLY that technology), and the results have been meritorious. I will not reveal the detail, but it is amazing in its simplicity.
They also re-vamped their entire production line in 2011.

AND they paid attention to the market.
People that wanted a 0.17" RR; they were the first to offer it. Later, others jumped on the bandwagon, but Aguila was first. The 0.17 RF M2 is now gone, but they do make the 17 HMR.
You want to feed that old 5mm Rem RF Mag? Aguila makes it.
You want quality 22 Win Mag? look at Aguila's offering.
The Sniper Subsonic round is a great round when used by knowledgeable shooters (it requires a fast twist barrel), sadly, there was a lack of shooter's education and it was maligned from the start.
Yes there are "novelty" rounds, like the "Interceptor" and the "SuperMaximum" (sort of Stingers and MiniMags), and they are OK for hunting and plinking. Again, it's what the market wants and speed (like sex) sells.
And there are other rounds that are very good. RF, CF Rifle, Pist,ol and Shotgun (have you heard of the MiniShells?).

In THIS particular case, I know that the DIANA has a tight chamber and headspace, it's part of the original specs; some sort of "target" oriented ammo was in order.

So, if you are curious, buy a box of both ASE and AC, and test in YOUR gun, the rifling may or may not like it, the chambering may or may not be appropriate, but for a few dollars you can test for yourself and find out.

If you do, keep us posted.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Very comprehensive and informative. Great response. I have one question though, which would apply to any ammunition, either rimfire or centerire.

I see the advice all the time that once you find a particular load that shoots very well in your weapon, to buy cases and cases of that particular lot. How exactly can you do this? How are boxes of that lot still available weeks or months later after your ammo test?

If I bought several boxes 308 Win ammo by different brands and different bullet weights and styles, then fire them all thru my rifle to determine which one is best, find one that is amazing in my rifle.....how do I go back to the store and buy out the remaining “lot” ? This is especially a question for an online purchase, how do I specify what “lot” I need to get when adding to my cart?

My question applies to all type and calibers. On its surface it sounds like very sage advice, but it doesn’t even sound remotely possible to do, unless you’re purchasing your ammo from some specialty shop that you can work with the salesperson to accomplish this.

So many people have given this same advice, which in my semi-intellectual estimation seems impossible to actually do. The fact that so many people give this advice leads me to believe that it can be done, or that they’ve actually done it. Can it be done, and how? Or is it more of a theory than reality?

 

[Biggfoot44]

The buying same lot number thing is of greatest importance with rimfire .

If you're buying locally , the idea is to test soon after testing the various samples , and if you find a particularly good one , rush back to the store , and buy the remaining stock .

 

[Lafayette]

Guntry is only 10 minutes from my house, so I'm always interested in how people like it...I've shot there a few times on other people's dime. Great feel and if money wasn't so tight I'd plunk down for a membership.

As for ammo choices - 100% spot on with everyone's observations. Sadly, I'm sitting on a brick of Aguila that my CZ457 hates (can't do better than a 1 inch group at 50 yards.) Unfortunately my hipster rifle has decided that only Eley will do. It's like buying beer for an annoying bearded guy at the bar that refuses to drink anything except Trappist ales, and my wallet is more in line with Natty Boh.

 

[Mark75H]

I didn't know they made HMR either ... guess I need to buy some more ammo

 

[Hector J Medina G]

Very comprehensive and informative. Great response. I have one question though, which would apply to any ammunition, either rimfire or centerire.

I see the advice all the time that once you find a particular load that shoots very well in your weapon, to buy cases and cases of that particular lot. How exactly can you do this? How are boxes of that lot still available weeks or months later after your ammo test?

If I bought several boxes 308 Win ammo by different brands and different bullet weights and styles, then fire them all thru my rifle to determine which one is best, find one that is amazing in my rifle.....how do I go back to the store and buy out the remaining “lot” ? This is especially a question for an online purchase, how do I specify what “lot” I need to get when adding to my cart?

My question applies to all type and calibers. On its surface it sounds like very sage advice, but it doesn’t even sound remotely possible to do, unless you’re purchasing your ammo from some specialty shop that you can work with the salesperson to accomplish this.

So many people have given this same advice, which in my semi-intellectual estimation seems impossible to actually do. The fact that so many people give this advice leads me to believe that it can be done, or that they’ve actually done it. Can it be done, and how? Or is it more of a theory than reality?

Al;
Perhaps I am going to set the floor on fire with this one, but let me start by saying that IN GENERAL, the "same lot" thing applies more to the low energy shooting sports than to the high energy shooting sports.
Being that Airguns and Rimfires are the lowest energy shooting sports, in these two cases, it becomes MANDATORY if you want to be competitive at an international level.

For CF's things are more complicated. On one hand, price. It is not the same to shoot 10 X 10 shot groups with pellets or RF's as it is to shoot even 5 X 10 shot groups with CF's.
On the other, the human factor. I can shoot hundreds of pellets or RF's in a day (even with spring-piston pellet guns) and still be in command of all my mental abilities. After a full round of HP Metallic Silhouette (80 shots) with my 7.62X51 , I REALLY needed a rest.

So, depending on whether you are looking for target or hunting ammo the ideas would be different.
BigFoot nailed it as far as hunting ammo. You go to a store talk to the clerk, find out which batches are in the store, buy those that look promising, test them and then return as fast as humanly possible to the same store. If you offer the salesperson a substantial purchase, he/she will go out of his/her way to get it done. AND, hunting ammo does not rotate inventory as fast as target ammo.
With Target ammo, I would do it differently. First of all, look into all the offerings by SERIOUS companies (From Aguila to RWS all the alphabet), we can look into specific names if you want, but as I said, the reality is determined by the person on the production floor. Not the brand.
There ARE some brands that have superlative quality control, but that only means that they can make a batch that will still comply with their quality control, but YOUR gun will hate. Eley is notorious in this aspect. Yes, MV's are within tolerances, yes test groups are within tolerances, but their lead varied by as little as 0.05% in the tin content and one rifling will just be polished enough to lead horribly at the throat and you're done.

Once you have located the brands and styles you want to test, you need to locate their distributors in the US, and then you need to ask them which outlet has the best stock in the styles you want to test.
With that information, you contact the retailer and explain the same again, with the promise of a large purchase, they will help with locating the lots they have and then reserving something for a week or two (sometimes with a refundable deposit) so that you can make your purchase.

Having said that, if you are serious about precision shooting, then take up reloading. You can buy primers by the thousands, and powder in 20 lbs kegs, cases (if carefully prepared and used will last dozens of reloads in ONE gun) and quality bullets can also be had by the thousands.
The first time investment on the press, the dies and the scales is a once only if you choose quality (notice I did not say "expensive") equipment. And for HP precision shooting, preparing a hundred rounds per week should be about right and, with practice, it will not take more than an hour. As a note, HP for me does NOT include 5.56's.; and here we come to the last one: if you are shooting a LOT of a military caliber, then look into specialty retailers that offer bulk purchases. Whether it is 7.62 or 5.56, or 9 mm's they will have arsenal sized lots in stock and will be more than happy to ship you closed/sealed packages of the same lot. Their help here is in selling you ONE box to test.

As in all aspects of life: "Half of the getting is in the proper asking"

Back in the days we also conducted CLUB purchases, and when you are talking of a purchase of tens of thousands, people get interested and cooperative.
The key here was to agree on WHAT to buy, LOL!
Not sure that is doable now, but it was an interesting angle.

HTH, keep well, shoot straight and keep us posted!




HM

 

[Hector J Medina G]

Guntry is only 10 minutes from my house, so I'm always interested in how people like it...I've shot there a few times on other people's dime. Great feel and if money wasn't so tight I'd plunk down for a membership.

As for ammo choices - 100% spot on with everyone's observations. Sadly, I'm sitting on a brick of Aguila that my CZ457 hates (can't do better than a 1 inch group at 50 yards.) Unfortunately my hipster rifle has decided that only Eley will do. It's like buying beer for an annoying bearded guy at the bar that refuses to drink anything except Trappist ales, and my wallet is more in line with Natty Boh.

So sorry to hear that, Lafayette.

Exactly which version of Aguila do you have?

I've heard from fellow shooters that their problem is that the Aguila ammo (mostly the super-sped-up ones) foul the bore after the first 30 shots. And so, accuracy can be had, but at the cost of cleaning the bore every "few" rounds.
Try to test if it is a problem of throat leading, or further down the bore fouling, and also test other types of ammo.
Eley used to use a relatively hard wax on their bullets, but with low melting point, so that the wax stayed on the bullet through handling and loading, but spread evenly along the bore as the bullet heated up.
Finding out what is causing the low accuracy is an important aspect in developing the knowledge of YOUR kit. And is also part of the fun!

CZ's have hammer-forged barrels and, IIRC, their hammer forging is done using a short mandrel technique. The DIANA is made with the long mandrel technique (as are Blaser barrels), where the CHAMBER is also part of the hammer-forging process.
The other aspect about CZ RF's is that they use a 0.211" bore, which is, IMHO, too tight to create a "tolerant" rifle. Yes it will be accurate, but it WILL be, by definition, a finicky rifle. There are ways to correct this, but it would require some affectation of the barrel. As long as it is accurate with ONE, obtainable and repeatable/reliable source of ammo, just enjoy it for what it is: a superb example of Gunsmithing.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

 

[Hector J Medina G]

Thanks indeed! What an interesting and an unexpected post of detailed observations! I'll tell you what prompted my question, as it was obvious to me that you likely had a reason other than pure chance for the ammo you took to the range.

Several years ago, I bought a Ruger 10/22. I bought it because I thought I might be the only guy on the planet that didn't own one. And I had some gift certificates to burn, and figured I'd see what all the 10/22 fuss and fanfare was about.

I took that new rifle to the range. It had fit and finish befitting an inexpensive plinker, and a trigger to match. Not a problem, as I wasn't expecting to find an Annie mistakenly shipped from the factory in a Ruger box. And while I'm not the sort to relish buying a new rifle, and then stripping it until nothing is left but the receiver, I can usually fight my way through a less than good plinker grade trigger, to see if a rifle can shoot.
With that rifle, I took 8 or 9 different brands of ammunition. I'm very well aware that rimfires (in particular) are absolutely notorious at times for having very definite ammo preferences.

My long story made shorter, the performance of 7 of those ammo brands ran the gamut from poor, to extremely poor, to "good God,I've never seen anything like that" in terms of absolutely atrocious. I won't bash the brand, but one sample in particular displayed jaw dropping results, as in the least precise performance I'd ever experienced in a rimfire rifle. And I'm not a young guy.

Brand 8 was CCI Standard. It tends to be decent ammo in most anything I've used it in. And as expected, it performed decently, by now thinking it would perform ok if anything would. It performed about where I figured this factory stock rifle would be, at 1-3/4 or perhaps a bit better at 50 yards. Think minute of squirrel.

The final ammunition I had was Aguila Super Extra. Mine was the copper washed high speed offering, rather than the standard. I chose the high speed with the semi cycling in mind thinking it may help with new action.
I don't mean their hypervelocity offering.

2 thoughts, and I'll end this already lengthy post. One, damn that primer stinks! And two, that stinking primer smell became absolutely wonderful. Smelled like Chanel to me, because that ammunition absolutely blew away everything else I had shot in that rifle. And it wasn't even close. I was nothing less than shocked by the performance of that Mexican made ammunition! I'm now sitting on quite a supply of it, and use it almost exclusively in that Ruger, although it shoots tight in my CZ rifle as well. I was pleasantly surprised, to say the least!

Appreciate the insight! In light of my thoughts above, I was curious to see what you might mention. Great post!

Thanks, Uncle!

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

 

[Allan R]

Interesting post.
I'm considering joining there.
Can you shoot AR there?

 

[BurkeM]

Interesting post.
I'm considering joining there.
Can you shoot AR there?

Guntry? Yes.

We Have Answers to Your Gun Range FAQ's | GUNTRY

Find answers to common questions about membership, range rules, training classes, COVID-19, and more. Call us today or visit online!

www.guntry.com

Range Rules

www.guntry.com

• All Wear and Carry permit holders and Law Enforcement may carry their weapons, upon their person, inside GUNTRY.
• Only law enforcement officers may draw from a holster and MUST be preapproved by the Range Safety Officer. All others must complete a holder-draw course provided by a GUNTRY instructor, for a charge, prior to being allowed to draw from a holster.

 

[Hector J Medina G]

Interesting post.
I'm considering joining there.
Can you shoot AR there?

To expando on what Burke already answered, these are the rules for the ammo used in the rifle range:

Ammunition​

• Frangible, tracer, armor piercing, incendiary and all other ammunition containing steel are prohibited.
• All rifle ammunition up to and including .30 caliber is permitted on the 25-yard range.
• Ammunition up to, but not including, .50 caliber and 338 Lapua is permitted on the rifle ranges.
• All ammunition must be boxed, and all magazines unloaded.

It is worth noting that there is safety video you need to view BEFORE you go to the range. Or, you will be made to watch it there and then. SO save time and go through their reservations process to save time.

Good luck and keep us posted!




HM