9th Circuit: Jones v Bonta, semiauto rifles in CA win

[Kharn]

Opinion summary on Volokh

I'd need to digest it further to understand what's going on but the state lost at the 9th panel, so we know an en banc will be called for a complete reversal.

 

[TapRackBang]

Guess I should post this in the Media Bias thread: In their coverage, the AP made sure to include that the majority Judges "were part of Republican President Donald Trump’s wave of conservative-approved nominees that reshaped the famously liberal court. "

Good grief...

 

[whistlersmother]

Opinion summary on Volokh

I'd need to digest it further to understand what's going on but the state lost at the 9th panel, so we know an en banc will be called for a complete reversal.

Yep.

En banc, reversal, cert denied.

Rinse, repeat.

 

[DC-W]

En banc is all but a certainty, but the timing against NYSRPA makes this interesting.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Here’s the thing…. The timing of the release of this opinion is intentional.

There will be three things minimum that will be stated in the NYSPRA opinion that will effect all 2A cases across the board.

1. That One has the right to carry firearms in public and the only reason ones need is our 2A right for self defense.

2. How scrutiny is to be used, along with the use of Text, history. This will by itself will limit the widespread use of intermediate scrutiny. Thereby making it much more difficult for liberal judges to rule against many 2A cases.

3. Sensitive places/times.


It will be item #2, mainly that will tie the ends of an en Banc panel. They may decline to hear the case. Either way the case will still get appealed to SCOTUS. If it’s a clear violation of the NYSPRA opinion. They will issue a PC on the case. However, IMHO it won’t get that far.

Why do I say that? Because of several other cases at SCOTUS level that will have PC issued on the, after the NYSPRA. Duncan v Bonta, ANJRPC v NJ. Which ANJRPC is on hold pending NYSPRA, for a reason.

The 9th circuit would be hard pressed to explain why an almost total ban of SemiAuto rifles is constitutional, but a ban on magazine capacity is not. As SCOTUS will overturn both Duncan and ANJRPC and both are magazine ban cases.

There is also an AWB form Maryland case pending at SCOTUS as well. More then likely it will get a PC as well. The 9th will have a hard time on an EnBanc if SCOTUS makes a ruling in the Maryland AWB.

Now I will admit this is all speculation. There is an extremely good chance we will win the NYSPRA case, based on the Dobs leak. However to what extent it will be positive and in what ways will take months to decipher if not even a few years.

Either way, it will still have some positive influence across the nation, just as Heller has had a positive effect despite everything else.

Keep in mind NOW we have half the nation being constitutional carry, and before Heller, we weren’t even close to that. In fact just this year and last year alone we added 9 states to that list.

 

[whistlersmother]

Isn't the 9th the most overturned circuit?

I highly doubt that "looking bad" will be a reason not to overturn the panel's decision.

After all, there are no consequences for going against a SCOTUS ruling. What's SCOTUS going to do? PC the case so the 9th can just make the same decision again.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Isn't the 9th the most overturned circuit?

I highly doubt that "looking bad" will be a reason not to overturn the panel's decision.

After all, there are no consequences for going against a SCOTUS ruling. What's SCOTUS going to do? PC the case so the 9th can just make the same decision again.

Your right in that The 9th is the most overturned circuit for the last 50 years.

They could go against SCOTUS if a case is PC’d. However they won’t unless they can somehow find a loophole based on some previous case or how the Opinion for NYSPRA was written.

However if you look at history, the courts don’t go against SCOTUS. At least on the federal level. Some state courts and states have, but then in those few cases the president sent in the national guard to enforce the SCOTUS ruling too.

While Biden might not send in the National Guard, the next president might. So I highly doubt that they will go against SCOTUS.
JMHO though.

 

[motorcoachdoug]

There is reason why that the 9th circuit is called the bastard child of the federal circuits..

 

[Bob A]

There is reason why that the 9th circuit is called the bastard child of the federal circuits..

And that's only when the caller is being nice.

 

[krucam]

Here it comes…

 

[Kharn]

Here’s the thing…. The timing of the release of this opinion is intentional.

There will be three things minimum that will be stated in the NYSPRA opinion that will effect all 2A cases across the board.

1. That One has the right to carry firearms in public and the only reason ones need is our 2A right for self defense.

2. How scrutiny is to be used, along with the use of Text, history. This will by itself will limit the widespread use of intermediate scrutiny. Thereby making it much more difficult for liberal judges to rule against many 2A cases.

3. Sensitive places/times.


It will be item #2, mainly that will tie the ends of an en Banc panel. They may decline to hear the case. Either way the case will still get appealed to SCOTUS. If it’s a clear violation of the NYSPRA opinion. They will issue a PC on the case. However, IMHO it won’t get that far.

Why do I say that? Because of several other cases at SCOTUS level that will have PC issued on the, after the NYSPRA. Duncan v Bonta, ANJRPC v NJ. Which ANJRPC is on hold pending NYSPRA, for a reason.

The 9th circuit would be hard pressed to explain why an almost total ban of SemiAuto rifles is constitutional, but a ban on magazine capacity is not. As SCOTUS will overturn both Duncan and ANJRPC and both are magazine ban cases.

There is also an AWB form Maryland case pending at SCOTUS as well. More then likely it will get a PC as well. The 9th will have a hard time on an EnBanc if SCOTUS makes a ruling in the Maryland AWB.

Now I will admit this is all speculation. There is an extremely good chance we will win the NYSPRA case, based on the Dobs leak. However to what extent it will be positive and in what ways will take months to decipher if not even a few years.

Either way, it will still have some positive influence across the nation, just as Heller has had a positive effect despite everything else.

Keep in mind NOW we have half the nation being constitutional carry, and before Heller, we weren’t even close to that. In fact just this year and last year alone we added 9 states to that list.

I expect all the cases currently up for conference/cert to be GVR'ed, not receive PC's.
The various courts are all rushing to get their opinions out so they don't have to redo months of work based on NYSRPA, they'll let the loser deal with it by attempting for en banc or go direct to the SC for GVR.

 

[DC-W]

I expect all the cases currently up for conference/cert to be GVR'ed, not receive PC's.
The various courts are all rushing to get their opinions out so they don't have to redo months of work based on NYSRPA, they'll let the loser deal with it by attempting for en banc or go direct to the SC for GVR.

I’m with you on that. The lower courts are better readers of the tea leaves than we are.

One of the best signs was when 4CA granted MSI’s request to hold the HQL suit in abeyance until NYSRPA resolved and that was over the objection of the state.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I expect all the cases currently up for conference/cert to be GVR'ed, not receive PC's.
The various courts are all rushing to get their opinions out so they don't have to redo months of work based on NYSRPA, they'll let the loser deal with it by attempting for en banc or go direct to the SC for GVR.

I agree some will be a GVR without a doubt. A select few will get a PC because someone will want to dissent, as well as some will need further clarification. Either Duncan and or ANJRPC will be a PC. Young will be a PC.

Only those courts where an abeyance has not been issued are trying to get their opinions out before NYSPRA. Especially those below the En Banc panel. However, at last count. In district, circuit and state courts across the country, there are currently no less then 25 cases being held in abeyance stating precisely that they are pending NYSPRA. In one case though. One case says pending NYSPRA, another case is pending on the one that’s pending on NYSPRA, and cascades down several levels.

Once NYSPRA opinion is issued the appropriate courts will see to what effect it has on heir case, and then they will proceed from that point on.

in Some cases the state may concede, and in other cases the state may continue to fight. Depends on the case and issues.

Heck California is allready working on an appeal for their semi auto rifle case in requesting an en Banc hearing in the 9th circuit. The 9th circuit won’t be able to grant a rehearing nor have oral orguments before NYSPRA even issues their opinion. That was the point of the 9th circuit panel issuing their ruling when they did.

 

[Kharn]

I looked up the CA law.

The judges weren't being coy while talking about AR15s or anything fun, CA seriously banned all semiautomatic rifles for those under 21. What a bunch of party poopers.

 

[press1280]

En banc is all but a certainty, but the timing against NYSRPA makes this interesting.

Seems less certain now. NYSRPA should be out before a decision on whether to go en banc is made. The 9th may want to let this one go or else risk a year or two of extra work get scuttled with the stroke of a pen by SCOTUS.
I am surprised they actually went ahead with the ruling. While the result may get upheld in the end, their reasoning may end up being at odds with NYSRPA.

 

[DC-W]

En banc petition deadline extended to 7/25.

 

[press1280]

En banc petition deadline extended to 7/25.

Yea it looks like they want to wait to see what NYSRPA holds

 

[Inigoes]

Decision is vacated

Decision to block California ban on under-21 rifle sales vacated​

MSN

www.msn.com

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2022/09/07/20-56174.pdf

 

[press1280]

Decision is vacated

Decision to block California ban on under-21 rifle sales vacated​

MSN

www.msn.com

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2022/09/07/20-56174.pdf

Let’s see what the district court does now