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  • scottyfz6

    Member
    Dec 22, 2018
    293
    25+ states disagree your your antigun opinion and require nothing to carry.
    Its not anti gun, its called personal responsibility. If I could not reliably hit a silhouette in the best situation I would work on it until I could. Yes there is a point where I would carry anyway, but it would be when I was damn close to hitting it every time.
     

    6-Pack

    NRA Life Member
    Jan 17, 2013
    4,354
    ☭ Maryland ☭
    You too, 6 pak.

    Hey enlighten me how this condition affects accuracy and point of aim/actual shot placement results with handgun.
    Well, I shoot right-handed but use my left eye - the stance doesn’t feel natural with a handgun.

    For rifles it’s easy - I just adjust my sights /scope to accommodate my right eye. For handguns I hold the pistol with my right hand in front of my left eye (and close my right eye).

    I’ve been trying to learn some other techniques.

    My wife and kids are also cross-eye dominant. What’re the odds of that?
     

    clandestine

    Active Member
    Oct 13, 2008
    36,130
    Its not anti gun, its called personal responsibility. If I could not reliably hit a silhouette in the best situation I would work on it until I could. Yes there is a point where I would carry anyway, but it would be when I was damn close to hitting it every time.
    It's antigun. You just won't admit it.
     

    chilipeppermaniac

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Well, I shoot right-handed but use my left eye - the stance doesn’t feel natural with a handgun.

    For rifles it’s easy - I just adjust my sights /scope to accommodate my right eye. For handguns I hold the pistol with my right hand in front of my left eye (and close my right eye).

    I’ve been trying to learn some other techniques.

    My wife and kids are also cross-eye dominant. What’re the odds of that?
    6 Pack,

    Hey I often wondered if because when I do a dominant eye test while focusing on my finger in front of a point then close my right eye my finger still covers the point while looking with my left eye. Then keep finger still and close left eye, the finger appears to move to the left a couple inches.

    Makes me wonder would my shot be a few inches off as well if I shot handguns right handed with my left eye closed like I might do shooting a rifle. Of course I also know about training to shoot a handgun with BOTH eyes open especially since it is best to look with both eyes if you are in a defense situation.
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    22,753
    While I believe in training and practice, I also believe it is an infringement to require target shooting as a prerequisite for carry.

    MD wants us to address a human size target at 45 feet; while I can imagine a scenario where that might be necessary, I have no doubt that I'd need serious legal help to stay out of jail for engaging at that distance.

    Grandma with her pocket pistol will not be picking off bad guys at that distance; while I don't have statistics at hand, I suspect that most self-defense shootings occur at near contact range.

    Beyond that, putting holes in immobile paper does little to prepare anyone for dealing with a moving human threat.
     

    lx1x

    Peanut Gallery
    Apr 19, 2009
    26,774
    Maryland
    My initial training was ~5 hours of lecture/discussion/videos, ~3 hours of dry fire, and ~8 hours of live fire (students told to bring 350 rounds). I'm not sure a pocket pistol would last until lunch.
    It was a punishing experience vs what my friends reported for their classes, but I thought myself a better shooter for it.
    Yeah...it all depends on the class/instructors. As long all requirements are met.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    16,304
    PA
    My initial training was ~5 hours of lecture/discussion/videos, ~3 hours of dry fire, and ~8 hours of live fire (students told to bring 350 rounds). I'm not sure a pocket pistol would last until lunch.
    It was a punishing experience vs what my friends reported for their classes, but I thought myself a better shooter for it.
    Depends on the purpose of the class. For a class more about tactics and marksmanship, I'll bring a full size or my 3 gun comp pistols. Some classes can be expensive, and probably have to travel to get to the best, so I'll bring 2 for whatever class I'm going to just incase one fails, i'm not out of luck. Already have holsters/ammo/mags setup for them, and I know they will run through a few hundred rounds of ammo with 0 issues. For some more focused on concealed carry, or when instructing others for carry, I'll bring the pistols I actually carry. Still reliable, but lower capacity, and not as comfortable to shoot for hundreds of rounds, or they are in more expensive calibers. Some things like IDPA's BUG division can be good practice with carry guns. I won't carry a pistol that can't make it through a couple hundred rounds without a problem

    Of course none of that should be a requirement to exercise a right. It is a good idea to train to competently defend yourself, but that should be a choice, not a requirement
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    16,304
    PA
    Its not anti gun, its called personal responsibility. If I could not reliably hit a silhouette in the best situation I would work on it until I could. Yes there is a point where I would carry anyway, but it would be when I was damn close to hitting it every time.
    Personal responsibility, OK sure, you are responsible for the results of every round fired, and you are the one that will suffer the consequences if you carry, but can't successfully defend yourself. A mandated requirement is a completely different animal, anti-gun, anti-civil rights, and anti-pretty much everything this group promotes.

    From a practical standpoint, "training requirements" are abused as an obstacle to exercising the right to carry, that is more dangerous than any danger presented by a couple people that can't hit the broadside of a barn. If it was all about basic competency, then why force hours of instruction on people every couple years, or refuse to allow people to just take a test to opt out. If the goal is to make sure people can defend themselves, why stop with an impractical and outdated course of fire, include hand to hand training to counter a gun grab, maybe have people run a mile under some random time to make sure they are capable of getting away from danger. Personal responsibility is just that, it's personal, not policy, and should not be policy, at that point it is no longer personal responsibility, it is advocating to restrict the rights of other people.
     
    Last edited:

    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    Feb 22, 2007
    6,882
    AA County
    Its not anti gun, its called personal responsibility. If I could not reliably hit a silhouette in the best situation I would work on it until I could. Yes there is a point where I would carry anyway, but it would be when I was damn close to hitting it every time.
    My Great Aunt Tilley, who is wheel chair bound and suffers from arthritis, but ready to protect herself... does she not deserve the right to self defense? Real life does not stand still awaiting for your aimed shot. Her 38 purse gun is there to dissuade evil that wishes her harm.



    .


    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
     

    smokey0118

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    28,596
    Worth a shot uses utm rounds out of a g17. You fire 25 shots at a paper plate from 5 yards. They'll call 1, 2, or 3, meaning how many shots you need to put on the target. There's a 3" orange sticker in the middle of the roughly 6" flat target surface of the plate. Anywhere on the flat(not wavy) part of the plate counts. You need to hit 18 or higher to pass. You get 2 chances, and then need to pay for the sims after that to take further chances.

    It's easy AF to pass for anyone with a base level of firearms experience.
     
    Worth a shot uses utm rounds out of a g17. You fire 25 shots at a paper plate from 5 yards. They'll call 1, 2, or 3, meaning how many shots you need to put on the target. There's a 3" orange sticker in the middle of the roughly 6" flat target surface of the plate. Anywhere on the flat(not wavy) part of the plate counts. You need to hit 18 or higher to pass. You get 2 chances, and then need to pay for the sims after that to take further chances.

    It's easy AF to pass for anyone with a base level of firearms experience.
    If they are certifying that as MD compliant, they are taking a huge risk. For themselves, and for anyone using their cert to qualify for the MD CCW. That’s no where close to what MD specs out.

     
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    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    11,967
    While I believe in training and practice, I also believe it is an infringement to require target shooting as a prerequisite for carry.

    MD wants us to address a human size target at 45 feet; while I can imagine a scenario where that might be necessary, I have no doubt that I'd need serious legal help to stay out of jail for engaging at that distance.

    Grandma with her pocket pistol will not be picking off bad guys at that distance; while I don't have statistics at hand, I suspect that most self-defense shootings occur at near contact range.

    Beyond that, putting holes in immobile paper does little to prepare anyone for dealing with a moving human threat.
    for most americans in a home self defense 45feet is a long engagement distance. In my humble 2900 SF I may see 45 feet if you stand at my front door and I am standing with my back against the back wall of my house or if you are in my living room and I am standing at the stove in the kitchen. In real life maybe an active shooter scenario would see the longer distance or rolling gun battle in the streets.....
     
    While I believe in training and practice, I also believe it is an infringement to require target shooting as a prerequisite for carry.

    MD wants us to address a human size target at 45 feet; while I can imagine a scenario where that might be necessary, I have no doubt that I'd need serious legal help to stay out of jail for engaging at that distance.

    Grandma with her pocket pistol will not be picking off bad guys at that distance; while I don't have statistics at hand, I suspect that most self-defense shootings occur at near contact range.

    Beyond that, putting holes in immobile paper does little to prepare anyone for dealing with a moving human threat.
    NJ has 25 yds included in the requirement. As you mention, if you are shooting someone out at 75 ft I’m sure you will get charged, and you better keep your mouth shut, and have a great lawyer.

    Putting 6 shots in at that distance could be problematic for pocket pistols such as the LCP, unless you are well practiced. And being in NJ, I’d say most aren’t. But you do have to qualify with whatever you register as your carry weapon. Hopefully that gets struck down as an undue burden of a constitutional right.
     

    ICW2019

    Member
    Mar 8, 2012
    163
    Eastern Shore
    What happens if somebody scores below 70%. DO they try again until they pass or is it another whole class that has to be taken?

    I'm pretty confident in my firearms ability but have never been put to an official standard like this course requires. Max is 15 yards correct?
     
    Last edited:

    hogarth

    Active Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,003
    While I believe in training and practice, I also believe it is an infringement to require target shooting as a prerequisite for carry.
    ^Agreed.
    MD wants us to address a human size target at 45 feet; while I can imagine a scenario where that might be necessary, I have no doubt that I'd need serious legal help to stay out of jail for engaging at that distance.
    Not at all true. Totality of circumstances.
    Grandma with her pocket pistol will not be picking off bad guys at that distance; while I don't have statistics at hand, I suspect that most self-defense shootings occur at near contact range.
    Most around 15 ft. Roughly the length of a car. Source: FBI agent shootings, DEA shootings, Tom Givens' students' shootings.
    Beyond that, putting holes in immobile paper does little to prepare anyone for dealing with a moving human threat.
    Which is why every LE agency and military unit--including the most elite units like LAPD SWAT, HRT, and Special Operations soldiers--spend most of their range time doing exactly that?
     

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