4473 address wanted

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  • RRomig

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 30, 2021
    1,051
    Burtonsville MD
    Looked to see if this was discussed and ignore if it is.
    Starting 9/26 FFLs may have to provide the address to the NICS system on denied 4473s. I’ve run into a few people and have also read about a few online that honestly don’t know if they are not eligible to buy a firearm. They obviously know they had a offense in the past but with PBJs and expungements it not altogether clear. So to be safe I suggest if your not sure don’t just send it and see what happens. Get in touch with a lawyer. JMO. GL
     

    rseymorejr

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    22,887
    Harford County
    Looked to see if this was discussed and ignore if it is.
    Starting 9/26 FFLs may have to provide the address to the NICS system on denied 4473s. I’ve run into a few people and have also read about a few online that honestly don’t know if they are not eligible to buy a firearm. They obviously know they had a offense in the past but with PBJs and expungements it not altogether clear. So to be safe I suggest if your not sure don’t just send it and see what happens. Get in touch with a lawyer. JMO. GL
    I thought you give them the address when you call/ send it in???
     

    RRomig

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 30, 2021
    1,051
    Burtonsville MD
    A friend was pretty sure he was ok and when I heard the recording I hung up and told him to call a lawyer. Not worth the risk
     

    rickyp

    Active Member
    Sep 13, 2009
    1,716
    A friend was pretty sure he was ok and when I heard the recording I hung up and told him to call a lawyer. Not worth the risk
    The issue is nics mistake people all the time, and that is the biggest issue. Innocent people can be getting in trouble for things they didn’t do.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    39,622
    Looked to see if this was discussed and ignore if it is.
    Starting 9/26 FFLs may have to provide the address to the NICS system on denied 4473s. I’ve run into a few people and have also read about a few online that honestly don’t know if they are not eligible to buy a firearm. They obviously know they had a offense in the past but with PBJs and expungements it not altogether clear. So to be safe I suggest if your not sure don’t just send it and see what happens. Get in touch with a lawyer. JMO. GL
    I thought you give them the address when you call/ send it in???
    Well, they get it somehow.
    A good friend wanted help building an AR. I sent him to a local gun shop for a lower. He failed a NICS on an old PBJ. I'm talking an out of state 40 year old PBJ.
    Three days later, MSP knocked on his door at 0400 and asked to search his house due to the NICS failure. I ended up as the caretaker of his guns for 3+ years while he got it expunged. It took a while because it was from another state. Long story short, they do get addresses and they do act on them.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    39,622
    Looked to see if this was discussed and ignore if it is.
    Starting 9/26 FFLs may have to provide the address to the NICS system on denied 4473s. I’ve run into a few people and have also read about a few online that honestly don’t know if they are not eligible to buy a firearm. They obviously know they had a offense in the past but with PBJs and expungements it not altogether clear. So to be safe I suggest if your not sure don’t just send it and see what happens. Get in touch with a lawyer. JMO. GL
    Even expungements aren't always simply ratified. You should always check with MSP after obtaining an expungement to be sure. In my friend's case,, Sgt. Brazil recommended he carry a copy of his expungement with him when buying a firearm in the future, for whatever that's worth...
     

    RRomig

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 30, 2021
    1,051
    Burtonsville MD
    Well, they get it somehow.
    A good friend wanted help building an AR. I sent him to a local gun shop for a lower. He failed a NICS on an old PBJ. I'm talking an out of state 40 year old PBJ.
    Three days later, MSP knocked on his door at 0400 and asked to search his house due to the NICS failure. I ended up as the caretaker of his guns for 3+ years while he got it expunged. It took a while because it was from another state. Long story short, they do get addresses and they do act on them.
    They lower went through MSP and yes they have the address from the 77r. Don’t get me wrong the info was always available to the ATF if asked for but that never happened in my shop but now they are making a point to notify if there’s a denial they’ll most likely want the address. Like I said when in doubt call a lawyer. I will check with MSP tomorrow to see how tough it is to get a answer from them without running a 77r. Thanks
     

    fishoholic

    Junior Member
    Aug 24, 2022
    98
    Eastern shore
    They lower went through MSP and yes they have the address from the 77r. Don’t get me wrong the info was always available to the ATF if asked for but that never happened in my shop but now they are making a point to notify if there’s a denial they’ll most likely want the address. Like I said when in doubt call a lawyer. I will check with MSP tomorrow to see how tough it is to get a answer from them without running a 77r. Thanks
    Did you ever get any information about this ?
     

    RRomig

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 30, 2021
    1,051
    Burtonsville MD
    Yeah they will pass on the address to the local police which sounds odd. They actually took an address today on a delay.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,794
    Well, they get it somehow.
    A good friend wanted help building an AR. I sent him to a local gun shop for a lower. He failed a NICS on an old PBJ. I'm talking an out of state 40 year old PBJ.
    Three days later, MSP knocked on his door at 0400 and asked to search his house due to the NICS failure. I ended up as the caretaker of his guns for 3+ years while he got it expunged. It took a while because it was from another state. Long story short, they do get addresses and they do act on them.
    And that is kind of the point. Basically what it means is it saves police/ATF time by the FFL providing the address on a failed NICS "everytime". Trust me, the police and ATF are not investigating every failure. Some failures sure. But they get a couple of hundred thousand failures every year and only about 10% being actual prohibiting conditions.

    But that's the thing, they often do investigate real failures, not just mix ups.

    The best suggestion is if you've ever been arrested and if it ever led to anything past being released without any order to appear or anything else like that, have a records search done. You should probably remember if you ever were convicted, plead to anything, judge gave you a PBJ, etc. on a criminal offense. I mean, I would think. Though plenty of people seem to forget they got arrested and charged with something years or decades ago. Crap I remember every time I've ever been pulled over or gotten a ticket (granted it isn't many times)
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    39,622
    And that is kind of the point. Basically what it means is it saves police/ATF time by the FFL providing the address on a failed NICS "everytime". Trust me, the police and ATF are not investigating every failure. Some failures sure. But they get a couple of hundred thousand failures every year and only about 10% being actual prohibiting conditions.

    But that's the thing, they often do investigate real failures, not just mix ups.

    The best suggestion is if you've ever been arrested and if it ever led to anything past being released without any order to appear or anything else like that, have a records search done. You should probably remember if you ever were convicted, plead to anything, judge gave you a PBJ, etc. on a criminal offense. I mean, I would think. Though plenty of people seem to forget they got arrested and charged with something years or decades ago. Crap I remember every time I've ever been pulled over or gotten a ticket (granted it isn't many times)
    Noted, but in my friend's case, this was a PBJ from another state(I know the N in NICS is national) from when he was in college. He was 60 years old when he failed the check. He had bought many rifles and shotguns since then. I don't get it. I'll add, I don't know the nature of the offense. It is safe to say, he undoubtedly had a clean record prior to the offense, and a clean record after the PBJ. Even the MSP were a bit mystified by the call-out. He lives alone on a farm in west MoCo, has his own business as well is a bar tender at a exclusive club.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,794
    Noted, but in my friend's case, this was a PBJ from another state(I know the N in NICS is national) from when he was in college. He was 60 years old when he failed the check. He had bought many rifles and shotguns since then. I don't get it. I'll add, I don't know the nature of the offense. It is safe to say, he undoubtedly had a clean record prior to the offense, and a clean record after the PBJ. Even the MSP were a bit mystified by the call-out. He lives alone on a farm in west MoCo, has his own business as well is a bar tender at a exclusive club.
    No argument it sucks. And I can kind of get it from so many years before. Especially if he had previously purchased guns on a 4473 and was okay. There SHOULD be an easy way you can just do a self-NICS to see if there are problems. I get that wouldn't cover some stuff that a 77r could turn up, but that is all state that shouldn't be seeing stuff from out of state anyway.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,350
    Political refugee in WV
    No argument it sucks. And I can kind of get it from so many years before. Especially if he had previously purchased guns on a 4473 and was okay. There SHOULD be an easy way you can just do a self-NICS to see if there are problems. I get that wouldn't cover some stuff that a 77r could turn up, but that is all state that shouldn't be seeing stuff from out of state anyway.
    And yet somebody that wasn't prohibited for a crime and was convicted before 9/30/2022 is now prohibited on 10/1/2022, because MD changed the max sentence for the crime. Use to be that a misdemeanor was <1 year. Now you have misdemeanors that are 10 years. How the hell are you supposed to keep track of that lunacy? Short version, you don't, because you can't keep track of it.

    Get off the high horse of remembering every speeding ticket you ever got. A speeding ticket is nothing compared to what people are losing their rights over, because the state keeps changing the goal posts on maximum sentencing.
     

    sxs

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2009
    2,937
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    And yet somebody that wasn't prohibited for a crime and was convicted before 9/30/2022 is now prohibited on 10/1/2022, because MD changed the max sentence for the crime. Use to be that a misdemeanor was <1 year. Now you have misdemeanors that are 10 years. How the hell are you supposed to keep track of that lunacy? Short version, you don't, because you can't keep track of it.

    Get off the high horse of remembering every speeding ticket you ever got. A speeding ticket is nothing compared to what people are losing their rights over, because the state keeps changing the goal posts on maximum sentencing.
    And, at least some people with PBJs have been told to keep their nose clean for x amount of time and the charge just goes away. I personally know of 3 people in that situation. All of them bought firearms for years, then suddenly in 2013 they were no longer eligible to receive a firearm because of law changes. For most purposes, perhaps it did "go away". But with changing laws (as you mentioned) it obviously doesn't go completely away.
     

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