40,000 Applications

[MDFF2008]

I just saw the MSI post today and that really got me excited.

I realized that Maryland is going to be in a unique position compared to NY going into the GA session this winter. Unlike NY, Maryland could have 200,000 permits issued by January, with people actually using them.

I'm taking my class tomorrow so I'll be sure to note if they do, but I hope the instructors are rallying people to show in January and testify and not just signing people up for USCCA.

 

[BurkeM]

I just saw the MSI post today and that really got me excited.

I realized that Maryland is going to be in a unique position compared to NY going into the GA session this winter. Unlike NY, Maryland could have 200,000 permits issued by January, with people actually using them.

I'm taking my class tomorrow so I'll be sure to note if they do, but I hope the instructors are rallying people to show in January and testify and not just signing people up for USCCA.

Join MSI, FPC, GOA, MSRPA, and yes- the NRA. All have been involved in the lawsuits, all will need your support in the upcoming session.

If you can’t take time to testify in person for/against 2A bills - read the emails and posts on each proposed bill and at least submit your personal story for/against each bill for the record.

Failure to participate in the legislative process is like carrying an empty holster.

 

[linkstate]

I just saw the MSI post today and that really got me excited.

I realized that Maryland is going to be in a unique position compared to NY going into the GA session this winter. Unlike NY, Maryland could have 200,000 permits issued by January, with people actually using them.

I'm taking my class tomorrow so I'll be sure to note if they do, but I hope the instructors are rallying people to show in January and testify and not just signing people up for USCCA.

You know, now that you mention it, during my class, there was no mention of MSI, NRA, SAF, etc. Not even any mention of how to monitor future MD bill proposals that could remove the efficacy of the permits we are all working to obtain.

This could be presented in an apolitical way since class attendance is likely a mix of belief systems outside of firearms.

 

[Muleskinner]

The general assembly is going to do everything in their power to make it as hard as absolutely possible not only to get your shall issue permit but to keep it. I suspect that if they cannot come up with a way to make the permit issuing process long and drawn out and tedious and expensive they will pass laws that will make using your permit in a self-defense situation extremely situational with every intention of filing charges against the permit holder for using it. I've seen more than one trainer saying things like get it before they take it away from you or get it before they make it impossible to get it. I know what the supreme Court has said and I know what the state is supposed to do. But ultimately what would the supreme Court do if the state decided to ignore their ruling? Who in Washington DC would force the state of Maryland into compliance? There isn't anyone.

 

[thomfantomas]

And with that prediction,i would expect for all 200k permit holders to show up to the 2023 mga legislation infringement to voice their opposition!

This is imperative.

 

[Boondock Saint]

And with that prediction,i would expect for all 200k permit holders to show up to the 2023 mga legislation infringement to voice their opposition!

This is imperative.

 

[BurkeM]

The general assembly is going to do everything in their power to make it as hard as absolutely possible not only to get your shall issue permit but to keep it. I suspect that if they cannot come up with a way to make the permit issuing process long and drawn out and tedious and expensive they will pass laws that will make using your permit in a self-defense situation extremely situational with every intention of filing charges against the permit holder for using it. I've seen more than one trainer saying things like get it before they take it away from you or get it before they make it impossible to get it. I know what the supreme Court has said and I know what the state is supposed to do. But ultimately what would the supreme Court do if the state decided to ignore their ruling? Who in Washington DC would force the state of Maryland into compliance? There isn't anyone.

The Courts can force the States to obey the constitution and the orders of the courts.

Judges will dismiss charges against individuals where the underlying case is unconstitutional.

Individuals arrested without probable cause can sue organizations (police, County and State government) and individual officials in US courts and obtain civil relief and monetary awards for civil rights violations.

 

[BurkeM]

And with that prediction,i would expect for all 200k permit holders to show up to the 2023 mga legislation infringement to voice their opposition!

This is imperative.

If not in person, perhaps 200-400K phone calls, emails, and visits to local Delegates and Senators offices and written testimony in opposition to the committees hearing unjust bills.

That also matters.

 

[6-Pack]

I’ve personally heard new shooters complain about all they need to do “just to purchase a handgun.” I agree, but I think it’s an eye opener to some people who just never cared or believed everything they saw in the “news.”

 

[Muleskinner]

The Courts can force the States to obey the constitution and the orders of the courts.

Judges will dismiss charges against individuals where the underlying case is unconstitutional.

Individuals arrested without probable cause can sue organizations (police, County and State government) and individual officials in US courts and obtain civil relief and monetary awards for civil rights violations.

A court order is a piece of paper the same kind of paper that the original ruling came on. Like I said, if Maryland or any state wanted to ignore the supreme Court ruling nothing would be done about it. The Biden administration controls the Federal law enforcement agencies because they control the department of Justice. Joe Biden has weaponized the department of Justice. If you really think that any of the federal law enforcement agencies would enforce an order from the conservative supreme Court your mistaken. There's no teeth in that order. If you notice the state has no problems already ignoring parts of the ruling. The ruling stated that the only test that could be used to determine whether a person was qualified to hold a concealed carry permit is whether they are prohibited from owning a firearm. Yet the state still is requiring references on their application and training. The ruling said nothing about training. While I believe that there should be some training the supreme Court was clear. The only test that can be used to determine whether a person is qualified to hold a concealed carry permit is if they are prohibited from owning a firearm. They didn't say they had to be trained. I have a friend in New Jersey who says that New Jersey is really dragging their feet in the process and I'm sure other states that did not have shell issue or constitutional carry are doing the same.

 

[BurkeM]

A court order is a piece of paper the same kind of paper that the original ruling came on. Like I said, if Maryland or any state wanted to ignore the supreme Court ruling nothing would be done about it. The Biden administration controls the Federal law enforcement agencies because they control the department of Justice. Joe Biden has weaponized the department of Justice. If you really think that any of the federal law enforcement agencies would enforce an order from the conservative supreme Court your mistaken. There's no teeth in that order. If you notice the state has no problems already ignoring parts of the ruling. The ruling stated that the only test that could be used to determine whether a person was qualified to hold a concealed carry permit is whether they are prohibited from owning a firearm. Yet the state still is requiring references on their application and training. The ruling said nothing about training. While I believe that there should be some training the supreme Court was clear. The only test that can be used to determine whether a person is qualified to hold a concealed carry permit is if they are prohibited from owning a firearm. They didn't say they had to be trained. I have a friend in New Jersey who says that New Jersey is really dragging their feet in the process and I'm sure other states that did not have shell issue or constitutional carry are doing the same.

You’re not understanding how law works.

Maryland was not a party in NYSRPA v Bruen. There’s no court order telling Hogan or Frosh or MSP to do anything.

Hogan and Frosh read the cliff notes and understood that the “Good and Substantial” reason required for Maryland Handgun Permits is unconstitutional per the Bruen ruling.

The Court did not eliminate the right of states to regulate permits for handguns, concealed or open carry. The Bruen order did not eliminate training requirements, fees, fingerprints or background investigation for permits. Changing these things will take legislation and/or litigation. And more litigation.

The pending lawsuit (Antonyuk v Bruen) is likely to be heard soon, and may result in an injunction against Albany for their latest infringements (extra training, more range time, releasing social media for investigation, etc.)

That lawsuit may chill anything the MGA has in mind- MSI, 2AF, GOA and other 2A organizations may file an equivalent lawsuit and request for an injunction against any new infringement emerging in April.

 

[Bob A]

If you notice the state has no problems already ignoring parts of the ruling. The ruling stated that the only test that could be used to determine whether a person was qualified to hold a concealed carry permit is whether they are prohibited from owning a firearm. Yet the state still is requiring references on their application and training. The ruling said nothing about training. While I believe that there should be some training the supreme Court was clear. The only test that can be used to determine whether a person is qualified to hold a concealed carry permit is if they are prohibited from owning a firearm. They didn't say they had to be trained.

The may-issue states are not going to roll over and give up without a fight.

Despite that, they will eventually have to. Civil rights lawsuits filed against individuals do not have the protection of qualified immunity, and are subject to financial damages. That's the only reason Maryland has loosened as much as they have, and as quickly as they have.

As this plays out, it will get tougher for them to buck the Bruen decision; Thomas did a really good job cutting their foundation out from under the anti-2A legislatures.

Expend one-tenth of the passion you express here on your legislators; try to remain calm while you do so, as a rant will not move them. Support MSI with some money to help in the inevitale and expensive legal challenges. The fight is not over; Bruen has probably inflicted a mortal wound, but the enemy is still dangerous, and still in the fight.

 

[Boondock Saint]

You’re not understanding how law works.

Maryland was not a party in NYSRPA v Bruen. There’s no court order telling Hogan or Frosh or MSP to do anything.

Hogan and Frosh read the cliff notes and understood that the “Good and Substantial” reason required for Maryland Handgun Permits is unconstitutional per the Bruen ruling.

The Court did not eliminate the right of states to regulate permits for handguns, concealed or open carry. The Bruen order did not eliminate training requirements, fees, fingerprints or background investigation for permits. Changing these things will take legislation and/or litigation. And more litigation.

The pending lawsuit (Antonyuk v Bruen) is likely to be heard soon, and may result in an injunction against Albany for their latest infringements (extra training, more range time, releasing social media for investigation, etc.)

That lawsuit may chill anything the MGA has in mind- MSI, 2AF, GOA and other 2A organizations may file an equivalent lawsuit and request for an injunction against any new infringement emerging in April.

There is a court order. Rounds is controlling, isn't it? That ruling was the impetus for Hogan's announcement.

 

[Muleskinner]

You’re not understanding how law works.

Maryland was not a party in NYSRPA v Bruen. There’s no court order telling Hogan or Frosh or MSP to do anything.

Hogan and Frosh read the cliff notes and understood that the “Good and Substantial” reason required for Maryland Handgun Permits is unconstitutional per the Bruen ruling.

The Court did not eliminate the right of states to regulate permits for handguns, concealed or open carry. The Bruen order did not eliminate training requirements, fees, fingerprints or background investigation for permits. Changing these things will take legislation and/or litigation. And more litigation.

The pending lawsuit (Antonyuk v Bruen) is likely to be heard soon, and may result in an injunction against Albany for their latest infringements (extra training, more range time, releasing social media for investigation, etc.)

That lawsuit may chill anything the MGA has in mind- MSI, 2AF, GOA and other 2A organizations may file an equivalent lawsuit and request for an injunction against any new infringement emerging in April.

Okay but if the only test that can be used to determine a person's eligibility for a concealed carry permit is if they are or are not prohibited what good would having a requirement for references do since you can't use any of the testimony from any of those references to deny a person their permit if they are not prohibited. Like I said, I think training should take place for those who have never had it before. But thanks for setting me straight about that

 

[Occam]

There is a court order. Rounds is controlling, isn't it? That ruling was the impetus for Hogan's announcement.

It's not an order, it's a ruling that can be cited as a precedent (now that it's been "reported"). Because any future court case can point directly at that precedent, continuing with a policy (like may issue) knowing that it will fail in any and every state court case, a la Rounds, is doomed. Hence the change in policy that Hogan announced (and which Frosh was too much of a chicken-sh!t to do himself, that whiny invertebrate). But there was no court order aimed at MSP and what they do.

 

[BurkeM]

Okay but if the only test that can be used to determine a person's eligibility for a concealed carry permit is if they are or are not prohibited what good would having a requirement for references do since you can't use any of the testimony from any of those references to deny a person their permit if they are not prohibited. Like I said, I think training should take place for those who have never had it before. But thanks for setting me straight about that

References have been required for background investigations for hundreds of years. Requiring references would be a process that the State can defend by text, history and tradition in court proceedings.

However, we know from hundreds of recent applicants that MSP isn’t calling anyone listed on HGP applications, so protesting the application form is rather pointless.

It’s very likely that MSP will eventually update the portal to delete those fields and make the application easier and it will (probably) end up looking like the 77-R.

IMHO.

The next big battle coming will be to eliminate the racist and discriminatory prohibiting factors in the Gun Control Act of 1968, and creating a fair and equitable mechanism for relief from those prohibitive issues. For example, a conviction from 1986 should NOT result in a lifetime bar - not even for a crime of violence, when a citizen has lived for decades without further arrests or convictions.

Marijuana needs to be legalized at the federal level, or eliminated as a prohibition.

There’s lots of work to be done to eliminate 70 years of infringement.

 

[thomfantomas]

If not in person, perhaps 200-400K phone calls, emails, and visits to local Delegates and Senators offices and written testimony in opposition to the committees hearing unjust bills.

That also matters.

Amen!!!

I think those W&C instructors need to advise their students about this reality!

 

[Burt Hammersmith]

I’m a normally quiet man but fully intend on speaking up against this nonsense on a county level and on a state level. I will bring my two older children and count it as a homeschooling field trip lol

 

[Texasgrillchef]

The general assembly is going to do everything in their power to make it as hard as absolutely possible not only to get your shall issue permit but to keep it. I suspect that if they cannot come up with a way to make the permit issuing process long and drawn out and tedious and expensive they will pass laws that will make using your permit in a self-defense situation extremely situational with every intention of filing charges against the permit holder for using it. I've seen more than one trainer saying things like get it before they take it away from you or get it before they make it impossible to get it. I know what the supreme Court has said and I know what the state is supposed to do. But ultimately what would the supreme Court do if the state decided to ignore their ruling? Who in Washington DC would force the state of Maryland into compliance? There isn't anyone.

Courts can hold a state in contempt. Don’t piss scotus off.

NY mooting the previous case in 2020 is one of the reason they took this other case on from NY and not one of the other carry cases. They wanted to slap NY a new one so to speak.
Justice Thomas wanted to say a lot. He got his chance and blew it out of the water.

Suffice it to say… Maryland will try. But Keep in mind the Governor is a Republican and can veto. Although a veto can be overridden.

Everyone is looking to NY to see exactly what they can get away with, however NY’s new restrictive law is about to get a TRO against it, followed by a full on preliminary injunction shortly thereafter. Once that’s in place the rest of the states will See that they can’t do much.

CA has a bill pending that’s almost a duplicate of NY’s new law. They are holding to see what will happen with NY’s law. Once the TRO and I junction are put in place on NY law. I will promise you that you will see several amendments on the CA bill making some big changes.

Maryland will make changes For sure. what changes it is hard to say. Probably more around places where we can’t carry.

Keep in mind another Maryland case that’s about to return Marylands AWB and Magazine Ban. Bianchi v Frosh.

Some are saying Bianchi isn’t challenging the magazine ban. That maybe so, but that doesn’t mean the court can’t still rule on it if it wants too, especially since it’s part of the same law that is being challenged.

We have quite a few cases around the country, multiple cases challenging AWB’s, Magazine capacity bans, 18-20yo, ghost guns, new carry restrictions, even location restrictions, Texas is challenging the silencer portion of the NFA. Among a few other cases.

However, Texas is the ONLY state, using Tax dollars to fight and overturn an unconstitutional law With a direct lawsuit against our federal government.

 

[Straightshooter]

If not in person, perhaps 200-400K phone calls, emails, and visits to local Delegates and Senators offices and written testimony in opposition to the committees hearing unjust bills.

That also matters.

Over 1 million emails didn't make a difference in 2013.