.22 Magnum for Concealed Carry?

[rseymorejr]

I have a friend with a colorful past. He was once shot twice in the abdomen with a .22. He didn’t want to go to the hospital for his own reasons. He watched tv for 4 hours until enough blood was in his abdomen to be painful. The shots hit vital blood vessels. He’d have died. He watched TV four hours.

Hey, When I catch a good series on Netflix I'll watch a bunch of episodes back to back too!

 

[teratos]

Hey, When I catch a good series on Netflix I'll watch a bunch of episodes back to back too!

Lol. This was in 92.

 

[E.Shell]

So many people think utterly stupid stuff, like:

1) I'm going to make a first round precision hit on a moving target that's shooting back.
2) I'm going to have time to rack my slide.
3) I'm going to be able to take multiple, carefully placed shots and get multiple hits.

 

[rbird7282]

ALUCARD 0822 said:
It's buffoonery plain and simple. Sure 22 has killed people, no I'm not willing to get shot by it, sure people in the past used small calibers for defense. Thing is any competent and knowledgeable person knows better.

Seems to me efficacy depends on the user. See this:

Israeli Mossad .22 LRS: The Reliable Pistols of the Mossad

An enemy of Israel believes that he has successfully slipped away from the Mossad after his heinous act of terrorism.

www.tactical-life.com

Except this is being used for assassination, not a self defense scenario.

 

[teratos]

Except this is being used for assassination, not a self defense scenario.

Hell, if you can shoot twice behind the ear from an inch away, .22 standard velocity in a suppressed pistol stays subsonic. Movie quiet and adequate.

 

[rbird7282]

So many people think utterly stupid stuff, like:

1) I'm going to make a first round precision hit on a moving target that's shooting back.
2) I'm going to have time to rack my slide.
3) I'm going to be able to take multiple, carefully placed shots and get multiple hits.

Sad but true

 

[teratos]

So many people think utterly stupid stuff, like:

1) I'm going to make a first round precision hit on a moving target that's shooting back.
2) I'm going to have time to rack my slide.
3) I'm going to be able to take multiple, carefully placed shots and get multiple hits.

Bro. Imma choot him in da face!

 

[Bob A]

I will say that it's tempting to carry a nice easy-shooting 32ACP instead of a more massive double stack 9mm.

The argument that carrying to deter attack doesn't require as much firepower as carrying to win a battle has some charm.

Insofar as it's (hopefully) unlikely that the majority of MDS permit holders will never be called upon to fire on a threat, the odds seem to favor small and comfortable. I remain of two minds on the question, though.

 

[teratos]

I will say that it's tempting to carry a nice easy-shooting 32ACP instead of a more massive double stack 9mm.

The argument that carrying to deter attack doesn't require as much firepower as carrying to win a battle has some charm.

Insofar as it's (hopefully) unlikely that the majority of MDS permit holders will never be called upon to fire on a threat, the odds seem to favor small and comfortable. I remain of two minds on the question, though.

The chances of using your sidearm in self defense are very small. In scouts, I learned “be prepared”. Still good advice. There are a lot of bad people out there. They sometimes travel in packs. I don’t think it’s worth trusting your life to “deter”. A micro-compact 9mm is affordable, and as easy to carry as a .32.

 

[eruby]

A .22 is not my first choice, nor even my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or even Sith choice.

That said, I'm not going to shoot myself in the eye with a .22

 

[joppaj]

Bro. Imma choot him in da face!

I personally aim for the jugular notch and prefer 22 shorts.

 

[eruby]

.... In scouts, I learned “be prepared”....

I was a Cub Scout, but kicked out for eating a Brownie

That said, I too am always prepared:

Zip ties
Gloves
Duct tape
Chloroform
Chuckles
Wild Turkey 101

 

[rbird7282]

I was a Cub Scout, but kicked out for eating a Brownie

That said, I too am always prepared:

Zip ties
Gloves
Duct tape
Chloroform
Chuckles
Wild Turkey 101

LMAO

 

[teratos]

I personally aim for the jugular notch and prefer 22 shorts.

If they have a gun. A .22 short CB to the lateral epicondyle will make them re think things.

 

[eruby]

If they have a gun. A .22 short CB to the lateral epicondyle will make them re think things.

Your post is humerus

 

[dbledoc]

As a CIVILIAN orthopaedic surgeon who observed/treated gun shot wounds acute and late reconstructions while in training at Ohio State, as a professor at Hopkins, and in my medical missions to Palestine my thoughts are:
1) All gun shot wounds from any caliber can cause pain.
2) To physiologically stop someone you have to either hit CNS or cause enough bleeding that they physically can not keep going.
3) To psychologically stop someone you have to create enough pain and fear that they will stop and either run away or just give up.
In Ellifrtiz’s article from 2011 he reports on the data he was able to obtain on shootings. He admits that his data is skewed. The most prevalent handgun rounds available on the street at the time was 22 and 9mm. We don’t know how many shootings did not get reported or seek medical attention. There are a number of people who get shot with small caliber non-critical injuries who never seek medical attention. I have seen lots of 22 injuries that require no treatment other than a simple band-aide.

We all agree that most handguns in major calibers take more than one hit to create a physiologic stop, the time after the critical hit to physiologic stop varies depending on where the hit occurred and the physiologic state of the person getting shot. We know that deer hit with a heart shot still run for example. This also doesn’t take into account if the person shot is using opioids, PCB, or other substances which can prolonged the time from critical injury to physiologic stopping.

Every individual has a different psychologic response to pain. For example, after spine surgery I did not require any pain medication. The person who had the same exact surgery, by the same surgeon right after me needed enough pain medication to empty the hospital pharmacy. Along those same lines - it would probably take a lot of induced pain to psychologically stop me, while that other inividual would take almost no pain to be completely incapacitated.

Given that our average Baltimorean predator has been shot on multiple different occasions before their final fatal encounter, and the modern prevalence (2022 vs 2011) of opioid and other substance use, I cannot see myself relying on the psychologic stop of a small low energy transfer round like a 22lr or 22 mag. The smallest I would consider carrying is a 380 with modern defensive ammo and large capacity (LCP max), but I prefer to carry 9mm or greater.

 

[teratos]

As a CIVILIAN orthopaedic surgeon who observed/treated gun shot wounds acute and late reconstructions while in training at Ohio State, as a professor at Hopkins, and in my medical missions to Palestine my thoughts are:
1) All gun shot wounds from any caliber can cause pain.
2) To physiologically stop someone you have to either hit CNS or cause enough bleeding that they physically can not keep going.
3) To psychologically stop someone you have to create enough pain and fear that they will stop and either run away or just give up.
In Ellifrtiz’s article from 2011 he reports on the data he was able to obtain on shootings. He admits that his data is skewed. The most prevalent handgun rounds available on the street at the time was 22 and 9mm. We don’t know how many shootings did not get reported or seek medical attention. There are a number of people who get shot with small caliber non-critical injuries who never seek medical attention. I have seen lots of 22 injuries that require no treatment other than a simple band-aide.

We all agree that most handguns in major calibers take more than one hit to create a physiologic stop, the time after the critical hit to physiologic stop varies depending on where the hit occurred and the physiologic state of the person getting shot. We know that deer hit with a heart shot still run for example. This also doesn’t take into account if the person shot is using opioids, PCB, or other substances which can prolonged the time from critical injury to physiologic stopping.

Every individual has a different psychologic response to pain. For example, after spine surgery I did not require any pain medication. The person who had the same exact surgery, by the same surgeon right after me needed enough pain medication to empty the hospital pharmacy. Along those same lines - it would probably take a lot of induced pain to psychologically stop me, while that other inividual would take almost no pain to be completely incapacitated.

Given that our average Baltimorean predator has been shot on multiple different occasions before their final fatal encounter, and the modern prevalence (2022 vs 2011) of opioid and other substance use, I cannot see myself relying on the psychologic stop of a small low energy transfer round like a 22lr or 22 mag. The smallest I would consider carrying is a 380 with modern defensive ammo and large capacity (LCP max), but I prefer to carry 9mm or greater.

Thank you for your input. Interesting read.

 

[Ducky]

Except this is being used for assassination, not a self defense scenario.

If the shooter is adequately trained & drilled there is no difference.

 

[rbird7282]

If the shooter is adequately trained there is no difference.

Sure there is, he's not getting shot at.

 

[Ducky]

Sure there is, he's not getting shot at.

I repeat: inadequate training.