RRA trigger is this a major problem in all of them??

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  • clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,032
    Elkton, MD
    RRA Triggers are not that great overall. They tend to wear excessively and cause function problems. Some will develop disconnector stickiness, some will hammer follow and not grab the disconnector.

    I cant opine on the video, I cant see first hand if things were messed with. RRA Notches the hammers too wich is a no go for me. The video shows a Hogue pistol grip. If someone uses a grip screw thats too long it will effect the FCG, and reduce hammer/trigger engagement. It could be these guys who are the problem, not the trigger.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,585
    Harford County, Maryland
    I've had my Rock for several years, bought it new. I've never done anything with the lock work short of cleaning and lubricating. It has the two stage trigger, but you have to be real attentive to feel the first stage. It is safe otherwise, never followed or anything like that. Another member also had one that was the same way.
     

    FlatTopFoley

    Bears
    Sep 6, 2010
    999
    Silver Spring
    I am glad this thread came up, cause I've been having a increasing worrying problem with my RRA and its stage 2 trigger

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lzECfCDc8Q
    (*please ignore the mess of computer wires and other crap in my room)

    RRA lower
    DMPS parts kit
    RRA Stage-2 trigger
    RRA operator stock
    Entry Tactical Upper


    I noticed this not long ago when putting everything together after a cleaning and closed the stock all the way. Cant be normal right? This is my first AR (my second rifle after my SKS) and still learning. The lower was put together at the shop I bought it at. I did end up having to take it back once because of a failure in the rifle the first time we had it out (BCG wouldn't lock back after last round on magpul magazines, took it back and all they would tell me is someone installed a spring wrong)
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,336
    Mid-Merlind
    I found this on the net...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T51AeoLOko

    Can someone explain this? This isnt normal for a RRA 2 stage thats untouched is it?
    No, not not normal. When I first saw this video last year, I immediately panicked and ran to check all of mine - none do this.
    RRA Triggers are not that great overall. They tend to wear excessively and cause function problems. Some will develop disconnector stickiness, some will hammer follow and not grab the disconnector...
    I agree that they could be made a little better, but, all things considered (simple drop-in installation, relatively low cost, no adjustment required, immediate and drastic improvement to quality of pull), they are a decent value IMHO.

    After installing a couple Jard triggers ( :mad54: ) and a few Bushmasters ( :sad20: ), I find the RRA a refreshingly simple and straightforward unit to install and use.
    I cant opine on the video, I cant see first hand if things were messed with. RRA Notches the hammers too which is a no go for me...
    I never did get a follow up on the video after first seeing it, and I do not know what the actual/final diagnosis was. Things can and do break, and parts can be produced out of spec. I'm confident there is a specific problem with the rifle itself or with the FCG in the video because the 6 or 7 RRA triggers I have don't do this.
    ...The video shows a Hogue pistol grip. If someone uses a grip screw thats too long it will effect the FCG, and reduce hammer/trigger engagement. It could be these guys who are the problem, not the trigger.
    Agreed. The screw designed for a standard A2 PG is too long for a Hogue. Some AR-15 lower manufacturers tap the PG threads all the way through, others stop the threads early.

    If the threads stop early, it's easy to tell you need a different, shorter screw, because the PG never becomes tight. If the lower in the video had the threads tapped all the way through, a too-long screw may penetrate far enough to create problems exactly as Chad states.

    FWIW, the Jard trigger unit requires this PG screw hole to be tapped all the way through, so that their special PG screw can be used to adjust over-travel.

    Chad, another thought regarding the first video: I would wonder if the hammer was installed in such a way that the spring legs don't rest on the trigger pin and have dropped all the eway to the floor of the fire control cavity? This drastically reduces hammer spring tension and may prevent full engagement tension between contact surfaces. The assembler may have "innovated" here to further reduce trigger pull, which would be a secondary effect to this incorrect installation, the primary effect being the trigger pin working it's way out. :D

    I've had my Rock for several years, bought it new. I've never done anything with the lock work short of cleaning and lubricating. It has the two stage trigger, but you have to be real attentive to feel the first stage. It is safe otherwise, never followed or anything like that. Another member also had one that was the same way.
    As I mentioned above, I have at least a half-dozen guns with RRA triggers that I installed myself that have had no issues. Several of these triggers have more than a thousand rounds on them with no change in character and no malfs.

    The first stage of a stock RRA two-stage trigger should take a cumulative pressure of 3-1/2 pounds to reach the second stage. Once the second stage is reached, an additional pressure of 1 pound should release the hammer. If your trigger does not act exactly in this way, it should be evaluated by someone who knows what they are looking at.

    Sidebar: If your correctly functioning two-stage trigger, requiring a total pressure of 4-1/2# to release, requires one to be "especially attentive" to feel the second stage begin, your trigger technique can be greatly improved.

    Not being smart at all, but as a firearms instructor I can tell you from way over here that your finger is moving WAY too fast. While "jerking" might be a strong term to use without watching you shoot, you'd have to be getting close to that to lose the second stage feel of a properly operating RRA two-stage trigger.

    If you cannot EASILY feel the additional resistance of the second stage beginning, either slow WAY down on your trigger pull and make it a "squeeze" instead of whatever it is you're doing now, or get your trigger in for service before shooting it again, because something is VERY wrong.
    I am glad this thread came up, cause I've been having a increasing worrying problem with my RRA and its stage 2 trigger

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lzECfCDc8Q
    (*please ignore the mess of computer wires and other crap in my room)

    RRA lower
    DMPS parts kit
    RRA Stage-2 trigger
    RRA operator stock
    Entry Tactical Upper
    I watched your video twice and really cannot tell what you are trying to illustrate.

    Please describe the problem. What *exactly* do you see as abnormal operation and how is it induced?

    Do you know how to execute a standard FCG "function check"? How does the trigger group operate through that exercise?
    ...I noticed this not long ago when putting everything together after a cleaning and closed the stock all the way. Cant be normal right? This is my first AR (my second rifle after my SKS) and still learning.
    Anytime operation changes after reassembly, this is a very obvious CLUE that something is NOT assembled correctly. Immediately go back over it and find out what's wrong, correct it and then have another go at the function check.

    The operation of the telestock should have no effect on the operation of the rifle, if it does, something is very wrong.
    ...The lower was put together at the shop I bought it at. I did end up having to take it back once because of a failure in the rifle the first time we had it out (BCG wouldn't lock back after last round on magpul magazines, took it back and all they would tell me is someone installed a spring wrong)
    There are a few springs that *could* be installed in the wrong place by an inexperienced person, but I would NOT expect this from a professional shop, nor would I expect someone to make this mistake the second time they installed an LRPK, only their first time ever.

    If your lower was incorrectly assembled in this manner from the shop, I'd want to have a good armorer take a close look at it now, because we don't know what other errors or even "improvements" that may have been committed.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,032
    Elkton, MD
    All things considered (simple drop-in installation, relatively low cost, no adjustment required, immediate and drastic improvement to quality of pull), they are a decent value IMHO.

    I find the RRA a refreshingly simple and straightforward unit to install and use

    Very true, and I agree 100%

    After installing a couple Jard triggers ( :mad54: ) and a few Bushmasters ( :sad20: )

    Theres no bigger pain in the arse than a Jard in an AR. Some lowers require the lower to be retaped as you sais as well. :sad20: For the past 2 years Jard has had serious QC issues too. They were machinging the FCG Pin holes too large on the Hammers and Triggers. It was so loose a good adjustment couldnt be made because of the excessive slop. These we for 1.55 pin setups and were too small for COlt pin setup. Jard acknowledged a change in productin and replaced the bad unitsbut there was still more than necessary slop. I dont use them anymore.


    Chad, another thought regarding the first video: I would wonder if the hammer was installed in such a way that the spring legs don't rest on the trigger pin and have dropped all the eway to the floor of the fire control cavity? This drastically reduces hammer spring tension and may prevent full engagement tension between contact surfaces. The assembler may have "innovated" here to further reduce trigger pull, which would be a secondary effect to this incorrect installation, the primary effect being the trigger pin working it's way out. :D

    I think you may be on to something here, its either improperly modded, the springs are resting on the lower cutout or the receiver instead of the pins, or the PG screw is too long.
     

    04RWon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 13, 2010
    5,178
    Orlando, FL
    Good info in this thread. That video made me very nervous and started me looking into other options for my rifle...but I need a new trigger. Comparing mine to one from a DPMS parts kit, it seems a little heavier, no slop or anything, just a little heavier than I like. I loved the trigger in my old lar8.
     

    guthook

    Grrr.
    Apr 7, 2008
    7,056
    St. Mary's
    I am glad this thread came up, cause I've been having a increasing worrying problem with my RRA and its stage 2 trigger

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lzECfCDc8Q
    (*please ignore the mess of computer wires and other crap in my room)

    RRA lower
    DMPS parts kit
    RRA Stage-2 trigger
    RRA operator stock
    Entry Tactical Upper


    I noticed this not long ago when putting everything together after a cleaning and closed the stock all the way. Cant be normal right? This is my first AR (my second rifle after my SKS) and still learning. The lower was put together at the shop I bought it at. I did end up having to take it back once because of a failure in the rifle the first time we had it out (BCG wouldn't lock back after last round on magpul magazines, took it back and all they would tell me is someone installed a spring wrong)

    Your bolt catch may be OOS. Could explain the issue when lightly mortaring it and also the mag not holding open. I dunno, this is best left to the pro's. The stock issue is most likely coincidence.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,032
    Elkton, MD
    Ok, let my try and explain a little better with a new video. So I lock the bolt back. Open the stock, then closing with a little bit of force releases the bolt back. I guess the catch makes a little more sense than the trigger.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9GD6elyy5A

    Common problem. The Bolt Catch isnt traveling up far enough. Either the Bolt Catch Plunger or Spring is too long, The Bolt Catch hole in the Lower Receiver is drilled to shallow. The Bolt catch lower plunger interface can be filed down too.
     

    hole punch

    Paper Target Slayer
    Sep 29, 2008
    8,275
    Washington Co.
    ...Sidebar: If your correctly functioning two-stage trigger, requiring a total pressure of 4-1/2# to release, requires one to be "especially attentive" to feel the second stage begin, your trigger technique can be greatly improved.

    Not being smart at all, but as a firearms instructor I can tell you from way over here that your finger is moving WAY too fast. While "jerking" might be a strong term to use without watching you shoot, you'd have to be getting close to that to lose the second stage feel of a properly operating RRA two-stage trigger.

    If you cannot EASILY feel the additional resistance of the second stage beginning, either slow WAY down on your trigger pull and make it a "squeeze" instead of whatever it is you're doing now, or get your trigger in for service before shooting it again, because something is VERY wrong.

    ...

    :groan: my RRA NM 2-stage might be a bad one or installed wrong too. It has always performed as a light single-stage, except for the first week or so it was in, where it indeed was 2-stage when I dry-fired it at home. I installed it myself and it apears to be installed correctly from what I can tell. I've fired > 600 rounds since the install and it's been a crisp one-stage and been a pleasure to shoot. I never put much thought into it being a safety hazard until now.

    It is the mid-length that I put that DD Omega 9.0 rail on. The rest of the LPK is CMMG.

    btw, I lightly mortared my stock and could not get the hammer to fall like the one in the OP.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,585
    Harford County, Maryland
    E. Shell, thank you for the response. To clarify, the trigger finger isn't the issue, this is in slow deliberate fire as well. I had a Colt for a while after I got the Rock River and it definitely had a two stage trigger. That's when I started really feeling for the first stage of the Rock River gun.

    I guess it is possible I was sold a rifle with a single stage trigger or a 2 stage with the first stage negated by how it was fit. Its never been unsafe so I never had issue with it, though maybe I am still learning the finer details. So I identify the lockwork correctly, the two stage trigger has the double "hook" engagement surfaces on the hammer, correct?
     

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