Stop and Frisk, Baltimore, the DOJ Report, and G&S

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  • SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    In light of the DOJ Report on Baltimore:

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...ngs-investigation-baltimore-police-department

    Specifically:

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download

    I'm attaching them to this post; so they can't be memory holed.

    So why did I create this thread?

    Well, because of how big this report is, and how it ties into the gun control debate -- It might have gotten lost in the 100+ post thread I created.

    This is the DOJ report, hard page 24, PDF page 25:

    We find that BPD engages in a pattern or practice of making stops, searches, and arrests in violation of the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments and Section 14141. BPD frequently makes investigative stops without reasonable suspicion of people who are lawfully present on Baltimore streets. During stops, officers commonly conduct weapons frisks—or more invasive searches— despite lacking reasonable suspicion that the subject of the search is armed. These practices escalate street encounters and contribute to officers making arrests without probable cause,36 often for discretionary misdemeanor offenses like disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, loitering, trespassing, and failure to obey. Indeed, BPD’s own supervisors at Central Booking and prosecutors in the State’s Attorney’s Office declined to charge more than 11,000 arrests made by BPD officers since 2010.

    Um, actually, that's all legal; and has been according to MD law for the last 40 years -- the same law that gave us "good and substantial".

    The Washington Post supported Stop and Frisk too; from an editorial on 2 February 1972:

    WASHINGTON POST
    WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 1972
    PAGE A14

    The Pistol Packers (Editorial)

    Governor Marvin Mandel's modest proposal to spare the lives of a few policemen by cracking down on gun-toters in public places has run into a withering crossfire, as he no doubt anticipated, from "sportsmen" on one side and from libertarians on the other. It may be that both of them somewhat misapprehend the purpose of the stop and frisk authorization the governor has proposed. The "sportsmen" see it as a form of gun control—which it certainly is not. And the libertarians see it as a license for unlimited harassment of black citizens —which the governor certainly does not intend it to be.

    The Mandel proposal would fix stiff penalties for carrying a handgun on one's person or in an automobile without a permit. An exception is made for sportsmen engaged in an authorized sporting enterprise. And the bill would authorize policemen to stop persons and pat them down briefly and superficially on the basis of a "reasonable belief" that those persons are illegally carrying a concealed pistol. Prohibitions on packing concealed pistols are hardly novel and hardly a threat to bona fide sportsmen. For what sport would a "sportsman" want to carry a handgun around with him on the streets of a city? The purpose of this legislation is to enable policemen to protect themselves from thugs who last year used handguns to kill 72 officers engaged in the performance of their duty.

    * * *

    Anyone who wants to know what a real gun control bill is like need only look at the provisions of a measure introduced in the Maryland Assembly last week by Del. Woodrow M. Allen. It would flatly ban private ownership of pistols; anyone wishing to use a pistol for target shooting or other forms of "sport" would have to join a licensed gun club whore it would be kept under prescribed conditions and fired only under careful supervision; persons owning handguns would be required to turn them in to state or local police by next January 1 for fair compensation.

    Now, that is what we call a gun control bill. It would save the lives not only of policemen but also of daughters coming home from late dates and being mistaken for intruders, of wives and husbands displeased with one another with a firearm lying handy in a bedside drawer, of neighbors eager to settle political differences of the sort that arise now and then over a glass or two of some distillate. In fact, it is so sensible, practical and realistic that it has no possibility of passage by the assembly at the present time. Several thousand more Marylanders will have to lose their lives by pistol bullets before the insensate opposition of the gun lobbyists can be overcome.

    * * *

    The small first step toward sanity proposed by Governor Mandel appears to have had its chances of enactment improved by a prudent concession which has won it the endorsement of State Senator Clarence M. Mitchell III. It is wise and right, we think, that the basis for frisking a suspected gun toter should be sharpened so as to prevent arbitrary police action. The U.S. Supreme Court has said that the Fourth Amendment will not be violated if police officers search suspects for lethal weapons in situations where they may lack probable cause for an arrest. But of course this cannot be taken to mean that the police may search on mere unsubstantiated suspicion. Civil libertarians have been wholly justified in insisting that the police have real grounds for frisking; and we believe this insistence can be effectively fortified by requiring the police to report every stop and frisk incident so that the record will show just how frequently their action has been warranted.

    Such sharpening of the legislation will, we hope, diminish the fears of the libertarians. The phantasies of the "sportsmen" may be dispelled by speeding up the system for issuing permits and by assuring them that they can carry their handguns to and from lawful sporting enterprises.
     

    Attachments

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    • spl_police_accomplishments_8.10.16.pdf
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    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    The Washington Post
    Mar 28, 1972;
    Page C4

    Mandel Signs Md. Handgun Bill

    ANNAPOLIS, March 27 (AP)—Gov. . Marvin Mandel signed into law today the controversial measure making it illegal to carry a handgun in Maryland without a permit and giving police broad authority to slop and frisk persons suspected of being armed.

    Mandel hailed the measure as "one of the major bills to pass through this session of the General Assembly."

    The bill was actually signed at 1:03 P.M., and takes immediate effect because it is an emergency measure, passed by a three-fifths vote of both the House of Delegates and the Senate.

    Although it can be petitioned to referendum, its provisions continue to be law unless it is defeated at the Nov ember election.

    About 100 persons were on hand to witness the signing in the governor's state house reception room, including the five persons named by Mandel today to the review board that will hear appeals from persons who are refused permits to carry handguns.

    Named to the board were Donald A. Wescott of Bowie, head of public relations in the Washington area for Levitt & Sons, who will be chairman; the Rev. Mervin C. Gray, an inner-city Baltimore minister; H. Theodore Frantum Jr., the president of an Anne Arundel County gun club and a member of the National Rifle Association; William W. Travers of Salisbury, a retired judge and James H. Burton, a 22-year-old student from Baltimore's Cop-pin State College.

    The governor emphasized that the bill would take effect immediately throughout the state, despite statements from the Baltimore City police department that it would be several weeks before - it could issue new guidelines to its members.

    "This law will be implemented immediately in Baltimore City, and I don't think we ought to leave the public with the impression that it won't be," Mandel said.

    The governor appoints the Baltimore City police commissioner, who is responsible directly to him.

    Meanwhile, the state police, who will issue the permits, said they expect to handle about 50.000 applications before the year is out.

    The applications will be taken at all state police barracks and at offices of cooperating law enforcement agencies.

    Sgt. Rocco Gabriele, head of the state police gun control unit, said a task force of seven men will work full time on investigating gun permit applications and a backup force of 14 more has been assigned to help "when we get swamped."

    The cost of processing the applications hopefully will be covered by the $15 permit fee, Gabriele said.

    In addition to a $15 fee, gun permit applications must be notarized and accompanied by three recent photographs of the applicant. State police also fingerprint the applicant.

    Examination and approval or disapproval of a gun permit request may take up to several months, according to police.

    Some more stuff is coming
     

    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    The Washington Post
    Mar 16, 1972
    Page A1

    Gun Control Bill Passes Md. House
    By Lawrence Meyer
    Washington Post Staff Writer

    ANNAPOLIS, March 15— Gov. Marvin Mandel's proposed handgun control bill took the last major legislative step today, easily winning the approval of the Maryland House of Delegates despite a last minute effort by the gun lobby to beat the measure.

    Although the bill must still go back to the Senate for concurrence with amendments adopted by the House, little difficulty is foreseen in resolving differences—most of which are minor—between the House, and Senate versions. A Senate vote on the House version could come as early as Friday. House approval came on a 96-to-46 vote.

    The House action thus virtually assures final passage of a law Mandel proposed in the aftermath of a series of gunshot slayings last year in Baltimore.

    Today's vote represented a defeat for the Maryland gun lobby whose representative in Annapolis, J. Robert Esher of the Maryland and District of Columbia Rifle and Pistol As-sociation, had sent a letter yesterday to every delegate asking him or her to vote against the bill. Previously Esher had sought only to amend the measure.

    Mandel's bill, designed to curb shootings across the state but especially in Baltimore would:

    • Require most persons to obtain a permit from the state police superintendent allowing them to carry handguns on their persons or in their vehicles.

    • Establish mandatory minimum sentences for second-and multiple-offenders convicted of illegally carrying or transporting a handgun, and mandatory minimum sentences for all persons convicted of committing a crime with a handgun.

    • Allow a police officer to "stop and frisk" persons without first obtaining a search warrant if the officer has a "reasonable belief" that the person is armed and dangerous.

    Unlike most bills, which become effective July 1, the handgun measure carries an "emergency" provision that would make it effective immediately upon signing by the governor. Emergency measures require a three-fifths majority—86 votes in the House —to pass rather than the simple majority (72 votes) required normally. The bill passed the Senate with four votes to spare. In the House, with every member voting, the bill passed with 10 votes to spare.

    By a majority vote, the House shut off debate after voting on a series of proposed amendments, but before delegates could speak on the bill itself.

    All 16 Montgomery County delegates voted for the bill. The Prince George's County delegation split, with six delegates voting for the bill and 10 against.

    The vote today brought out a bitter division of the 14 black members of the House, half of whom supported the bill. Black delegates voting against the bill attacked it as a "racist" measure that would permit police officers to harass persons in Baltimore's black community.

    Del. Joseph A. Chester CD-Baltimore), a black delegate who supported the bill as a crime prevention measure, took the floor for the first time in his six years in the General Assembly to explain his vote.

    "I am voting for this bill because I believe it is a good bill," Chester said. "I'm no lawyer. I'm not an educator, But I have good common sense . . . When my constituents sent me here, I didn't come to represent race, creed or color."

    Chester urged the House to "quit monkeying around and get down to passing sound legislation."

    Del. Walter R. Dean Jr. CD-Baltimore), a black delegate who voted against the bill, said, "This bill, from the point of view of the black community is a racist bill designed to increase and maintain police surveillance of the black community. In the black community, for your information, those black politicians who have dared to stand up publicly and say they are for gun control have been, in every instance, booed off the stage."

    Following the House vote, Esher held out the slim hope that the bill still could be defeated in the Senate. Failing that, he said, he was considering a court test because the bill is "flawed," although he declined to say 'how.

    As a last resort, Esher said, the bill could be petitioned to referendum in the November general election. Esher said he was reluctant to try a referendum because a vote in favor of the bill by the electorate would seriously harm the gun lobby's effectiveness in Maryland.

    Mandel and his aides clearly were elated by the House vote. By way of a celebration, the governor who usually eats a Spartan lunch at his desk, took to lunch at a nearby restaurant four legislative aides whose energetic lobbying presumably helped hold the House majority together.

    Mandel predicted today that if the bill is petitioned to referendum, it would be approved by 70 per cent of the voters.

    Mandel aides said that governors from more than 30 states had requested copies of the bill for study as a possible preliminary to introducing similar legislation.

    The vote of Washington area delegates on the bill was:

    Montgomery County—All delegates In favor.

    Prince George's:

    For — Dels. Arthur Dorman, Pauline H. Menes, Ann R. Hull, Frank B. Pesci, Charles J. Sullivan Jr, and Craig S. Knoll

    Against—David G, Ross, Michael E. Foley, Arthur A. King, James J. Lombardi, Robert S. Redding, Charles S. Blumenthal, Bernard W. Donovan, Thomas V. Miller Jr., Frederick C Rummage and John W. Wolfgang.

    Oh, MoCo, keep being MoCo.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    What the DOJ says that the city does illegally is true. The police have to believe, based on reasonable suspicion, that someone is armed.

    The city is doing it at best without documented reasonable suspicion and at worst with malice against blacks to gain status as an aggressive or good officer.

    Stop and frisk under Terry is 100% fine but there are rules to it and Baltimore Police aren't playing by the rules.
     

    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    The Washington Post
    Mar 18, 1972;
    pg. A1

    Md. Assembly Enacts Gun Bill

    The Maryland General Assembly enacted Gov. Marvin Mandel's handgun control bill yesterday and sent it to the governor for his signature. Mandel said he probably will sign it next Friday. Because it was enacted as an emergency measure, it would then go into effect immediately and would not be suspended if petitioned to referendum.

    Details on Page D1

    - - - -

    Assembly Enacts Gun Bill
    Mandel Plans To Sign Edict Next Friday
    By Richard M. Cohen
    Washington Post Staff Writer

    Page D1

    ANNAPOLIS, March 17 — The Maryland General Assembly enacted Gov. Marvin Mandel's handgun control bill today and sent it to the governor for his signature.

    Mandel said he probably will sign it next Friday. As an emergency measure, it would then go into effect immediately and would not be suspended if later petitioned to referendum.

    Today's 31-to-10 Senate vote —a margin of five votes more than was needed to pass the bill as an emergency measure —came following a compromise by Mandel with a coalition of 12 senators from Montgomery and Baltimore counties seeking to block a bill that would deprive their jurisdictions of school aid.

    The handgun control bill, which the government had drawn up following a spate of shootings in Baltimore emerged with all its major provisions intact and represented total vindication for Mandel's legislative strategy. The measure will:

    • Require most persons to obtain a gun permit from the state police in order to carry handguns on their person or in their vehicles.

    • Establish mandatory minimum sentences for second and multiple offenses of the new law. Mandatory sentences have also been established for persons convicted of committing a crime with a handgun.

    • Permit the police to stop and frisk—pat down—persons they believe are carrying a handgun illegally. This provision was the bill's most controversial. As far as the administration was concerned, it was the core of the bill and the instrument for reducing street crimes.

    Civil libertarians denounced the provision, saying it would enable the police to harass blacks and other minority groups.

    But by incorporating this provision along with minimum sentences in the bill, the governor made the package attractive enough to Baltimore city legislators to guarantee passage.


    Vehemently opposed by the state's gun lobby, the bill survived eight weeks of debate and committee hearings and a protracted process that saw 66 amendments tacked on.

    The final threat to the bill came today not from the gun lobby and its chief lobbyist. J. Robert Esher of the Maryland-D.C Rifle and Pistol Association, but from the Montgomery and Baltimore County senators.

    In a last-minute move, the two delegations, totaling 12 senators, told the governor's lobbyists that they would withhold their votes on the bill unless Mandel promised to kill a school aid bill. The aid bill, which has been cleared by a House committee, would have deprived Montgomery and Baltimore counties—the state's two wealthiest—of their state school aid. Instead. the money would flow to poorer jurisdictions such as Baltimore City.

    As a result. Mandel is reported to have assured the Montgomery and Baltimore County senators that the House bill did not have his support and that he would work for his defeat. Other sources in the House said that Mandel even went so far as to pledge a vote if the bill eventually passed.

    As enacted, the gun bill avoids the two issues that have traditionally been anathema to gun enthusiasts—registering rifles and handguns kept in the home or in a place of business. Instead, the measure restricts the wearing or transporting of handguns and permits the police to stop and frisk persons suspected of illegally carrying a handgun.

    In the end, the 10 Senate holdouts against the bill came from the state's rural areas. In the Washington area, 11 senators voted for the bill with the exception of William Good-man (D-Prince George's) and Newton I. Steers (D-Montgomery, who were not present. Meanwhile, Usher said he had no doubt that the gun bill would be petitioned to referendum. In order to do that, the state's gun clubs must raise 30,000 signatures by July 1. If they are successful, , the bill would be placed on the November ballot.

    The defeat besmirched the reputation of the gun lobby, which has been considered a formidable force. The state's gun clubs, for instance, were given major credit for the defeat of Maryland Democrat Sen. Joseph Tydings in 1970. Tydings was the author of a federal gun control bill.

    :innocent0
     

    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    The Washington Post
    Oct 2, 1972
    Page C1

    Maryland Gun Law Has Caused Little Stir in First 6 Months
    By Douglas Watson
    Washington Post Staff Writer

    A 45-year-old white man who says he's afraid of being robbed while carrying money on the job is the typical applicant for a permit to carry a pistol under Maryland's new handgun permit law.

    A check of the 4,800 permit applications now before the state police shows that just one in every 40 applicants is a woman and only about one in seven is black.

    A look at the situation six months after the law was enacted as emergency legislation amid bitter controversy shows:

    • Three of every four applications have been approved, although the police have fallen well behind in checking out each applicant within 60 days as required by law.

    There have been no reported complaints from civil libertarians about the law's controversial stop and frisk provisions; police report just 254 cases of using the stop and frisk powers.

    • There has been a 10 per cent drop in statewide handgun sales, perhaps, police say, because many people misunderstand the law.

    Maryland's handgun permit law was proposed by Gov. Marvin Mandel last winter after several persons were shot to death in Baltimore.

    The law was enacted March 27, and took effect immediately despite opposition from the gun lobby, civil libertarians and many black leaders in Baltimore, who charged the law infringed or threatened to infringe individual rights.

    However, state police said in recent interviews that in 161 of the 254 stop and frisk instances, persons were arrested for illegally carrying a handgun. They say this is a strong indication that police generally have had good reason to frisk suspected violators of the law and that a lot of people are carrying guns illegally,

    "The honest people are still buying handguns and the crooks are still stealing them: It's that simple," said a Suitland gun dealer while noting some drop in his handgun sales.

    Police officials in several Maryland jurisdictions said last week they don't have enough information yet to be able to say whether the law has had any effect on crime, but they don't think it has. Others said that the law at least has meant 161 fewer guns are on the street.

    "The law isn't doing what its proponents had claimed it would do" to cut crime, said J. Robert Esher, legislative chairman of the Maryland-D.C. Rifle and Pistol Association, a leading opponent of the handgun bill before its enactment.

    There were 95 murders reported to state law enforcement officials during April, May and June, down from 122 murders during the same three-month period last year. But aggravated assaults by gun for the same period increased from 593 to 714.

    Of the 4,800 applications received, state police had acted on only 1,727 by Sept. 22. About three-fourths, 1,323, were approved, while 404 were rejected. Police say that an expected influx in applications could make the average waiting period even longer than the present 90 to 100 days.

    The largest number of applicants have, come from the Baltimore metropolitan area, with 1,183 from Baltimore County and 1,107 from Baltimore City. State police have received 455 applications from Prince George's County residents, proportionately more than the 194 submitted by Montgomery County residents.

    Last Monday, the state police department's handgun permits unit received applications from 42 persons wanting permission to carry a gun, including a private detective, one merchant, three salesmen, three contractors, and a funeral director. The largest group by far were 17 security guards and special policemen.

    The law does not require a handgun permit be obtained by policemen or by members of the armed forces when on duty.

    A permit also is not needed by persons keeping a gun in their own home or on their property or business if the business is owned by the individual. It enables supervisory employees to have handguns in business establishments if authorized by the owner.

    The law further makes it unnecessary to have a permit in order to take a handgun between the store where it was bought and a purchaser's home, or to a repair shop, or between a gun owner's home and place of business if be owns the business.

    The law also exempts antique gun collectors and people taking a unloaded and enclosed handgun to target practice or to a shooting event.

    Anyone charged with carrying a handgun in Maryland contrary to the law is subject to a possible $1,000 fine or sentence of up to three years. In addition, the law establishes a mandatory, minimum five-year sentence for anyone convicted of committing, a crime with a handgun.

    Those seeking a handgun permit may obtain an application from any state police station. The confidential application must be returned notarized with three photographs of the applicant and a nonrefundable $15 fee. Fingerprints are taken when the application is then submitted.

    About a dozen persons have been charged with per-jury--a crime; that can result in up to 10 years in jail and loss of voting rights— because they allegedly lied on their sworn applications that they didn't have criminal records, apparently thinking the Maryland state police wouldn't check out-of-state.

    The law bars handgun permits for persons who have been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor for which the sentence was more than a year, as well as to those who have been in juvenile correctional institutions for/more than a year within the past 10 years.

    Also barred from obtaining permits is anyone under 21 and anyone convicted of a drug offense.

    One applicant being charged with perjury had been convicted in New Jersey of several counts of larceny and housebreaking, while another had been an inmate or the federal penitentiary at Leavenworth, Kan.

    Det. Sgt. Rocco Gabriel,, head of the state police-department's handgun permit unit, said the most frequent reason applicants have been rejected is that they have not met the law's requirement that they show a "good and substantial reason" for carrying a handgun.

    Gabriel said the next most common reason for rejection is that applicants have shown instability or "a propensity for violence" that the law says is a reason for denying a permit.

    The law also states that a person cannot qualify unless he considers a handgun "necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger."

    Thus, Gabriel said someone frightened about carrying $50 with him might qualify to carry a handgun, while another person who calmly carrier a much larger amount of money would not. He added that one 6-foot-9, 350-pound applicant said he needed to carry a handgun because he's "scared to death."

    Gabriel said that in the final analysis with questionable applications, the state police make a subjective judgment whether a person should be allowed to walk around the streets with a handgun. So far, he said while knocking on wood, none of those approved have been convicted of crime.

    Gabriel, a veteran policeman, said the job of reviewing handgun permit applications has revealed, "There are a lot; more people carrying guns than I realized were carrying guns."

    Of the 404 persons who have been denied permits, more, than 200 have appealed to a five-member civilian Handgun. Permit Review Board - which can reverse the state police department's decision but has only done, so in four of 125 cases it has acted upon.

    Don Westcott, the board's chairman, said that the majority of those granted handgun permits have had restrictions imposed on them limiting either the time or place the guns can be carried.

    An amendment to the law that Westcott had proposed would exempt collectors of guns made after 1898, antique gun collectors already being exempted. Another would require applicants to demonstrate that they can properly fire and handle a handgun.

    Esher, of the Maryland-D.C. Rifle and Pistol Association, said he would like to see amendments -that would allow hikers and fishermen to carry handguns if they wish, and to give persons who are caught carrying handguns without a permit a chance to justify their action in court. Esher added, however, he's not optimistic about getting the law amended.

    The majority of the frisks made under the law have occurred in Baltimore City, which last year had 323 murders, the fifth highest homicide rate in the nation (Washington was third).

    Police who have frisked people suspected of illegally carrying handguns report that in most instances they acted because someone told them the individual was carrying a gun or because they noticed a bulging pocket or suspicious behavior.

    John C. Roemer III, executive director of Maryland's branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, said he has been surprised that his organization hasn't received a single complaint about alleged police abuse since the law was enacted.

    An aide to Rep. Parron Mitchell (D-Md.) Baltimore's, black congressman and a staunch foe of the law when it was being debated, said his office has received few, if any, complaints about abuses, but Mitchell remains unhappy with the law.


    As for the law's effect on crime, Baltimore County Police Major Charles Rockenbaugh said, "We have not experienced any appreciable change due to the new gun law." Spokesmen for the Montgomery County police and Baltimore City state's attorney's office concurred.

    There were 27,337 handgun sales last year through registered dealers in Maryland. State police expect that sales this year will be about 2,000 less, which Gabriel and gun dealers interviewed said was apparently due to public misunderstanding of the permit law.

    "It's really put a dent into our sales,"' said an Annapolis gun dealer.

    Under the handgun law. security guards, special policemen and private detectives who had been exempted from needing to have a permit under the old law were given until next March 27 to obtain a permit.

    There are more than 10,000 security guards, 2,500 special police and about 1,000 private detectives in the state, Gabriel said. Most of them will be seeking permits in the next six months, threatening to lengthen the state police's present applicant backlog.

    Walter Kolon, general manager for Wells Fargo Security Guard Service's local office, said that unless the permit processing is quickened, a long wait for permits by employees of private security firms could be very damaging to them and their companies. He said 15 Wells Fargo employees have applied for permits and are still waiting for them.

    It takes the state police an. average of three to four hours to investigate each applicant, a job that keeps one officer at both the Rockville and Forestville state police barracks busy full time. In Baltimore City seven troopers work full-time checking applicants.

    :innocent0
     

    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    The Washington Post
    Feb 17, 1972
    Page A1

    Md. Senate Keeps Tough Gun Curb Bill
    By Richard M. Cohen
    Washington Post Staff Writer

    ANNAPOLIS, Feb. 17 (Thursday)—The Maryland Senate, in a marathon session lasting into today's early morning hours, decisively rejected an amendment that would have stricken the stop and frisk provision from Gov. Marvin Mandel's gun control bill,

    At 2:45 a.m. the Senate ended debate on the bill and set the stage for the final up-or-down vote.

    The amendment lost by a vote of 27 to 6, indicating the administration has more than enough votes to keep the measure intact and probably pass it through the Senate. The House of Delegates, which has yet to consider the bill, is expected to pass it.

    Earlier, the senate rejected another amendment which would have retained the stop and frisk provision in the bill for one year, at which time it would have had to be re-enacted.

    The amendments to delete or modify the stop and frisk provision were sponsored by three black Baltimore senators and were supported by a hard core of Senate liberals. Senate leaders kept the upper chamber in session past the midnight hour in an attempt to bring the debate over the gun bill to an end. The Senate, which went into day and night sessions yesterday for the first time this year, has been debating the bill since Feb. 9.

    Before yesterday's debate began, Senate Majority Leader George S. Snyder (D-Western Maryland) said that if the amendment process could be ended today he hoped to bring the bill up for a final vote within two or three days and possibly as early as Friday. Other senators, even those opposed to the bill or individual provisions of it, predicted the measure would pass on the final vote and be sent to the House.

    Last night, the Senate defeated an amendment that would have deleted the pro-visions of the bill calling for mandatory jail sentences for persons twice convicted of illegally possessing a hand gun.

    Mandatory sentences and stop-and-frisk are the features most cherished by the Mandel administration, which proposed the bill after a spate of killings in Baltimore, involving hand guns recently.

    The stop-and-frisk provision would enable a police officer to pat down a person who he reasonably believed was carrying a handgun illegally.

    The provision was defended by Sen. James F. McAuliffe (D-Montgomery), who said that Supreme Court rulings, now permit such searches anyway.

    He said the guidelines incorporated in the bill protect persons from police harassment.

    Sen. Victor L. Crawford (D-Montgomery) disputed McAuliffe on this, saying the stop and frisk provision would be employed against blacks in Baltimore and bearded youths in Montgomery County. He said the real aim of the bill was to enable police to search persons for drugs.

    Despite this argument, Baltimore's three other black senators deserted Mrs. Welcome on the amendment and voted with the administration. It was unclear, however, how they would vote when the bill comes up for a final vote.


    The debate had to compete with the University of Maryland-North Carolina basketball game and several times senators had to be summoned from the television set in the Senate lounge to the floor for votes. Maryland won the game, 79-77, it was announced by Senate President William S. James (D-Harford).

    Basically, the Mandel bill would prohibit an individual from carrying a concealed handgun on his person or in his car without a permit.

    Senator after senator, while maintaining support of the bill, sought exemptions for certain types of people or pastimes. Some of this results from the fact that this is an election year and more than half a dozen senators are considering congressional races.

    Remembering that former Maryland Sen. Joseph D. Tydings (D) was defeated for reelection after he proposed a federal gun registration law, many of the state's legislators have been wary of any measure having anything to do with guns.

    Yesterday, the Senate reversed itself and killed an amendment that would have permitted the "owner, lessor or custodian" of a place of business or residence to delegate the right to keep a hand gun to another person.

    The Mandel bill would not affect hand guns kept in the home or in a place of business as long as it is in possession of the person who owns the home or the business.

    The amendment, which was sponsored by Sen. Newton I. Steers Jr. (R-Montgomery), passed the Senate Monday but was decisively stricken from the bill yesterday by a vote of 22 to 14.

    The Mandel bill has been opposed by rural senators who contend that it would infringe upon such traditional past-times as informal target shooting and hunting animal pests.

    Wwith the support of the state's gun clubs, these senators have offered about 40 amendments to the bill but have generally failed to significantly alter the measure. By early this morning, the Mandel bill had remained virtually unchanged.

    :innocent0
     

    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    The Washington Post
    Mar 9, 1972
    Page B5

    'Stop and Frisk' Survives Challenge in Maryland House
    By Lawrence Meyer
    Washington Post Staff Writer

    ANNAPOLIS, March 8—The Maryland House of Delegates today- rejected by an 89-to-42 vote an attempt to delete the controversial "stop and frisk" provision from Gov. Marvin Mandel's proposed handgun control bill.

    The move to delete the provision was pushed by Negro delegates from Baltimore, but six of the 14 black members of the House voted against stripping it, from the bill. Under the provision, police officers would be permitted to search persons without first obtaining a warrant if the officer has a ''reasonable belief" that the person is armed and dangerous.

    Negro legislators opposed to "stop and frisk" said they feared it would be used to harass blacks in Baltimore.

    The House adopted a separate amendment requiring special police, uniformed security guards, bank guards, private detectives, special railway police and armored car guards to provide the state police superintendent with evidence that he considers "satisfactory" that they are "trained and qualified in the use of handguns." The amendment's sponsor, Del. Helen Koss (D-Montgomery), said that the special police and guards frequently came into contact with large numbers of people. "I think we're entitled to that much reassurance," Mr. Koss said. The House approved the amendment by a 61-to-53 vote.

    Del. Kenneth L. Webster (D-Baltimore), who offered the amendment to delete the stop and frisk provision, told the House that in the city's black community, "a lot of young bucks will not tolerate the police harassing them unnecessarily." Webster warned that the provision could result, in violence.

    Del. Frank M. Conaway (D-Baltimore), one of the six black legislators voting against Webster's amendment, said that "ridiculous and stupid assertions" had been made about the bill. "The stop and frisk section does no more than what the Supreme Court already says the police can do," Conaway said.

    Conaway said he supported the bill in its entirety to stop a situation in Baltimore "where not only blacks are killing blacks, but whites are killing blacks. Since Jan. 1, Conaway said, 19 of the 22 persons shot in Baltimore have been black.

    :innocent0
     

    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    I sure hope MSI is taking some notes on this. :innocent0

    I don't think anyone has remembered this, because this was all 40 years ago; and everyone involved is pretty much dead by now or in the nursing home, so the "corporate memory" of this phase of gun control was lost to the mists of time.

    So uh...about that Stop and Frisk that DOJ talking about circa 2016 in regards to how BPD is racist...it's a crucial part of the "Good & Substantial" bill from 1972. :innocent0
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    Stuff like this should wake black and other minority voters up. Hopefully not just wishful thinking on my part. Oh, and all those tired old tales about racist white Dem politicians jumping ship to the GOP in the 60's, well, uhm, yeah, that didn't happen. Those racist Dems stayed in the Dem party and carefully hid their racism inside legislation like "Good & Substantial" and FSA 2013.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    28,432
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    So in post #10 we learn that the law was passed on March 27, 1972 and by Oct 2, 1972 the newly created HPRB, which included a 22 year old college student, heard 125 cases.

    Considering that the application process according to the article was running about two months that means that in less than four months the new board heard about 100 cases more than the current board does in four months. And this before email, fax and cell phone contact. Wondering if they were hearings or reviews?
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    It's not illegal. It's been the law for 40 years, along with "Good and Substantial".

    And what do you base that off of? You surely aren't basing your statement off of relevant SCOTUS rulings and other legal precedents.

    It certainly isn't illegal when done properly. BPD is not following the requirements in many of their contacts.

    The officer has to have reasonable suspicion that a person is presently armed and thus a danger.

    An officer jumping out on a black male in lose clothing walking down the street doesn't allow the officer to do a "stop and frisk". BPD practiced patting folks down for weapons based on little to no suspicion let alone "reasonable".

    If you aren't understanding these basic principles the conversation has hit a brick wall because you don't have a basic understanding of the legal precedents being discussed.
     

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