Spotting Scope Ideas if your on a tight budget

I'm also fairly new to MdShooters and before I start I want to say thanks to everyone here who takes the time to help those of us with less experience. I'm a firm believer in contributing to communities where I can. Hopefully newbies researching a new spotting scope purchase will find this information useful.

I am getting into shooting and recently picked up my first AR. My goal is to start working my way into amateur high power rifle competitions with my club.

I realized that I need a spotting scope and began looking for something cost effective that would work at 200+ yds. I didn't want to spend a ton of money because I just dropped $600 on Form 1 apps.

So after a visit to Bass Pro I came home with a Pursuit X-1 for $200.



http://m.basspro.com/Pursuit-X1-Compact-Spotting-Scope/product/1205040859416/

I don't really have anything to compare it to but it worked OK. Like others noted the cheap compact tripod is basically useless. I has expected to pickup a better compact tripod. I ended up with one of these for $25.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MT0SKAQ/ref=cm_sw_r_oth_api_5UHKxb6PS9AH8

As expected it was a huge improvement over the compact unit but still the head was very wobbly. I took the whole thing apart and tightened up all of the screws. Added a few O-rings. Better still, but not good enough. The main problem was the plastic adaptor for the tilt/pan/swivel head was just too thin and flimsy.

I ordered a precision tilt/pan head used for Astronomy telescopes for $42



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000XMV86/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_D4HKxbCC0X065

While it was obviously a low cost import item, I found the unit to have well made die-cast frame with brass drive screws. The plastic knobs were oversized and fell off right out of the box but easily replaceable with metal knobs for $10. It has a fine threaded hole on the bottom which is intended to screw into tripod head adaptor however the mini tripod above didn't have a threaded boss. Eventually I was able to modify the tripod to fit this securely.



So for so good, but I realized one more tweak. By replacing the center flange that links the three legs together with something larger I could spread the legs out further and by adding a locking screw I could gain a bit more stability. I 3D printed a new flange and replaced the loose rivets that attached the braces to the legs with screws.



After all of the tweaking the stability was greatly improved. The scope image was significantly more stable at 75x.

So I took it to the 200 yd range at AGC. It worked well. Having the micro adjustments for tilt and pan are really great for zeroing in.

So for about $300 total I've ended up with a decent spotting scope and compact tripod. But sadly I wasn't satisfied. Even with the compact tripod it was a bit difficult sighting while prone.

Somehow I found a thread here where another forum member was trying to solve some of the same problems.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=126755

I was actually surprised how clear the image through my iPhone was through the scope. My wife had an old phone which doesn't hold a charge I figured I could use this as a display screen and started to design an adaptor to attach the phone to the eyepiece of the scope. Looking to Web for ideas I found a few designs that looked good. After seeing the cost it just seemed easier to simply buy one at $22 as opposed to spending hours making my own.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013D2ULO6/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_rCLKxbEF472MH

It works well enough but being designed as universal it was also a little too loose fitting on the scope and phone. I ended up creating a clip on spacer to hold the phone to the mount and an adaptor ring to attach to the scope eyepiece at exactly the correct distance.



Here is the native image at 25x with no zoom factor on the camera. The dartboard is about 50ft away.



This shows the image with the scope magnification at 50x and the camera image at 2x.



One more image with the scope set at 50x and camera at 4x. (The max for the iPhone camera app). The holes in the dart board are about 2mm. Not bad! IMHO.



So obviously none of these efforts should be considered effective without a trip to the range.

Below is a photo with the scope magnification set to 50x and the camera set to 4x. It was around 5pm and the target was in the shade. Note the image does look a little blurry. I did have trouble taking a picture, because whenever I touched the phone on the image would vibrate slightly and the camera app would attempt to refocus the image. The actual image was good enough to see a three shot group on the bottom most right target.



So we have a working digital display for a spotting scope for about $25 if you have a phone. Obviously with a better scope your image quality would be better.

If anyone wants copies of the 3D files msg me.

All of this info was collected a few weeks ago this has been my first chance to post. Im a passenger on a 9hr drive to Georgia today with time to kill.

I'll be posting some follow ups soon. I tested the mount with a small GoPro style camera and found some great iPhone apps that allow you to broadcast the image to another device.







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There are a few older threads where this topic is discussed. Like your setup, a used MAK telescope is the cheapest way to do it, especially the Russian MAKs. I assume that's Chinese glass and construction on yours. The Russian MAKs can probably beat it in image quality by a wide margin but they're very fragile.

Thanks i think I found the relevant thread you were referring to.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=167123

Have you ever tried connecting a camera to your Pentax scope? Maybe its not even necessary but even with my cheap scope it seems that the camera zoom does help resolve 233 shots at a distance.

I also read some guys mentioned its better to use a fixed zoom eyepiece and avoid multi zoom.

I've got an old Surveyor Theodolite that I haven't used in 20yrs. I never considered checking it out to see how the image compares. It's got to have some fairly good glass I remember we recorded elevations in 1/10" increments at well over 2-3 chain lengths which would have well been over 200yds.

Just gave me something to do when I get back from vacation. If you see some nerd at the range using a big orange survey scope, don't laugh it's probably me.


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Don't they teach contractions anymore?

Of the reflectors, the Celestron C90 Maksutov is probably the best of the cheap ones. I can make out 22 caliber holes at 200 yards under ideal conditions.

http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/sport-optics/spotting-scopes/c90-mak-spotting-scope

I've played with digital imagers on my Vortex Razor HD. While the image appears very good, it can still be very difficult to discern bullet holes at 100 yards. The biggest obstacle has been finding good viewing software.

Use your earbuds to trigger the camera on phone. You can use the on/off/volume control switch to operate the camera on the phone so you don't have to touch the phone.


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ToolAA said:

Thanks i think I found the relevant thread you were referring to.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=167123

Have you ever tried connecting a camera to your Pentax scope? Maybe its not even necessary but even with my cheap scope it seems that the camera zoom does help resolve 233 shots at a distance.

I also read some guys mentioned its better to use a fixed zoom eyepiece and avoid multi zoom.

Click to expand...

Yes, I've attached cameras to mine. It's easy since the scope accepts generic telescope adapters.

I only used high-quality, fixed eyepieces. The multi-zoom have a tight eyebox, the exit pupil is small, the eye relief is too short, you get annoying distortion at the ends of the zoom range, and clarity is subpar. A small selection of fixed eyepieces solve those problems, for about the same price as a high-end multi-zoom that still comes up short by comparison. Eye relief and eyebox size are especially important at the range no matter if your wearing prescription eyeglasses or generic eye protection.

Check out these people. They have been making optics for years. I purchased one and I'm very happy with it. I think it was in the 250 range.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/celestron-brand.html

atblis said:

Of the reflectors, the Celestron C90 Maksutov is probably the best of the cheap ones.

Click to expand...

That's not saying much. I can say from firsthand experience, having thrown money down the drain on one, that it's garbage compared to a used but not abused Russian MAK. There's an easy way to tell. Bring it out on a clear night and try to focus on Jupiter and its moons. Don't be surprised if you see a bunch of "stars" and other unpleasant surprises that aren't really there thanks to myriad defects riddling the lenses. Defects that don't exist on decent or better Russian MAKs, keeping in mind their fragility just to be fair.

Threeband said:

Don't they teach contractions anymore?

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Who's having a baby

Boom Boom said:

That's not saying much. I can say from firsthand experience, having thrown money down the drain on one, that it's garbage compared to a used but not abused Russian MAK. There's an easy way to tell. Bring it out on a clear night and try to focus on Jupiter and its moons. Don't be surprised if you see a bunch of "stars" and other unpleasant surprises that aren't really there thanks to myriad defects riddling the lenses. Defects that don't exist on decent or better Russian MAKs, keeping in mind their fragility just to be fair.

Click to expand...

How much are the Russian Maks?

I have been searching eBay but it's very hard to tell what exactly I Should be searching for. I would love for someone to post an example or perhaps a model number for reference.


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Konus 20-60X80 is pretty much THE budget spotting scope. Check out DVOR they can be had for 135 from time to time.

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Would you look at that. Guess what I just got an email about.

http://www.dvor.com/konus-konuspot-20-60x80mm-3-1-spotting-scope-7120.html

Good deal if amyone needs a spotting scope!

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stu929 said:

Would you look at that. Guess what I just got an email about.

http://www.dvor.com/konus-konuspot-20-60x80mm-3-1-spotting-scope-7120.html

Good deal if amyone needs a spotting scope!

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Click to expand...

I believe the price is $149.99 which is quite reasonable. I may just order another.

I believe you are correct. Ive seen them a little lower on dvor around black friday but still a good deal for 149.

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stu929 said:

Would you look at that. Guess what I just got an email about.

http://www.dvor.com/konus-konuspot-20-60x80mm-3-1-spotting-scope-7120.html

Good deal if amyone needs a spotting scope!

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

mcbruzdzinski said:

I believe the price is $149.99 which is quite reasonable. I may just order another.

Click to expand...

Yup, great scope for the Money, Its what i use and i have posted in the Depot section here many a times when they Were having them on sale. I agree it is The best budget scope i have tried. i went through about 5 different scopes before i found and stuck with this one. I am happy with it for what my needs are.

As have said before, having worked part time for a telescope/spotting scope/binocular dealer, for the money a good Russian Maksutov is hard to beat. Yes a top end 80-100mm spotting scope is at the top of the list but most people can't afford a Leica, Swarovski, Zeiss, Kowa, Nikon or Pentax ED or Fluorite spotting scope (we sold Zeiss and Pentax at the top end and Celestron in the middle, but no cheap scopes). And yes I have a Pentax 100ED (about $2200 when new) but I also have a LOMO Astele 95 which only cost me about $250 used. The LOMO 95 is known to be able to see 30 caliber bullet holes in paper at 1000 yards, which most normal spotting scopes can't see (ask me how I know that). Only trouble is LOMO no longer sells scopes commercially (went back to military optics exclusively again) so finding a LOMO 95 on the used market is the only way left (what I did after a bunch of LR shooters bought all the LOMO 95s we had left one day). They are not the only Russian scope maker but you have to know what to look for. What you really want is a Rutten-Maksutov (Rutten was a Dutch optical engineer), also known as a Rumak because it has better optical corrections that the older Gregory-Maksutov designs used by Meade, Celestron, and even the high end Questar. But Rumaks are generally only made by companies that were founded in the old Soviet Union. If you see a Mak scope with a focal ratio under F14 it is almost without exception a Rumak, the LOMO 95 is F12.6 in fact. But Mak telescopes are different than Mak telephoto camera lenses and you don't want those.
A lot of the Maks these days come from China (current Celestron and Meade and most others you see) and while the Chinese (both mainland and Taiwan) make some excellent optics these days they can't match what comes out of the old Russian states, although they might be good enough for shorter work. I just don't have much experience with the Chinese stuff except for a few refractor telescopes.

$149 looks like a great deal. It looks like I'm going to return the Pursuit X1 for this reason and more.

Yesterday I dusted off my old surveyor theodolite. I tested it out with my camera adaptor in my basement and it looks like the glass is brighter than the X1.



I set it up at the 200yd range to see how it compared to the X1 but I didn't have time to shoot.



The mirage was very noticeable and the camera was having some difficulty auto focusing. These targets have a three shot reference group towards the bottom right. They are visible so I suspect actual shots appearing black would be more so. Without the camera I could see them fairly clearly.

What was a surprise was how stable the image is. This thing weighs 10lbs and the horizontal and vertical adjustments are very fine and smooth. It's much more stable than the tripod that I spent so much time trying to stabilize.

I'm interested to know if those of you with the Kronos scope think the image quality would be much better?

If not I may just hold off and camo spray paint this thing so I don't get strange looks at the range.










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mmacro said:

Use your earbuds to trigger the camera on phone. You can use the on/off/volume control switch to operate the camera on the phone so you don't have to touch the phone.


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Click to expand...

or just set a time delay on the camera. that will give it time to settle down before taking the image.