New Ross arrives - Photo heavy

-Was lucky enough to find and get another Ross MKII** Commercial Target rifle up on GB a month ago. It arrived this week and I was pleasantly surprised to find it in better condition than the poor auction photos represented. The biggest shock was to find that the SN on the new rifle is only 6 numbers away from my other MKII**! This was the first MKII** Commercial that I have seen since buying my other over a decade ago. They tend to stay in collections and rarely change hands. From shooting my first MKII** I can see why, they're amazingly accurate and a joy to shoot.
-Knew there was some active rust on the front band and on the barrel between that band and front sight from auction photos but otherwise condition was very good. The front sight hood is missing but that can be found and replaced with patience (bid on one on Evil Pay but wasn't willing to pay nearly $100 for it). Removed the rust with Kroil and brass wool. A shame the previous owner didn't give it the proper care it deserved. Luckily the damage is superficial.
-From auction photos I saw that the Canada Tool and Specialty rear sight was missing the aperture but Ross expert Barry DeLong was kind enough to sell me a pair of them for a very reasonable price so that problem was solved before the rifle arrived.
-This rifle is why I collect. Target shooters and snipers have held the Ross in high regard for their accuracy and it's a well deserved reputation. I'm thrilled to add another to the collection.

-Comparing the two Commercial Target rifles is very interesting in that they have slightly different sight bridges and there are minor differences in the safety levers and bolt stop. Otherwise they are very much the same. The easy way to ID a Ross MKII Commercial Target rifle is by the following features...
No rear sling swivel
No cutoff (Sir Charles Ross considered a cutoff on a sporting rifle a menace)
SN marked on left side of barrel between HG and receiver (military MKIIs had the SN marked on the buttstock)
The barrel on the Commercial model is 2.5 inches longer than the military and thus a bayonet cannot be mounted. The Commercial barrel is larger in diameter the the rifle is much heavier.
Rear sight is mounted on a bridge at the rear of the receiver. Later MK**s like both of mine have a one pc HG that covers where the military rear sight would have been mounted.
Buttstock is devoid of all stampings and markings that you normally find on the military MKIIs.
Floorplate on the Commercial Target has a locking screw that's not used on the military models.

Awesome! Glad to see this turned out to be the hidden gem you thought it was with no unpleasant surprises. Looks like it's actually in a lot better shape than the listing pics showed.

Outstanding, Mawkie!

Nice pick up, the bolt looks to have a lot of it's original case coloring,hows the bore?

thankyou,the info is great,never had my hands on one,sorry i haven't.

Augie said:

Nice pick up, the bolt looks to have a lot of it's original case coloring,hows the bore?

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Bore was neglected but under the fouling is a good tube. Already got most of it scrubbed clean with Kroil and elbow grease. Just needs a range session to apply heat and some insitu cleaning to get the last of it out. Should be a keeper.
Share your love of the case hardened finish on the bolt, damned sexy!

somd_mustangs said:

Awesome! Glad to see this turned out to be the hidden gem you thought it was with no unpleasant surprises. Looks like it's actually in a lot better shape than the listing pics showed.

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Thank you my friend! Breathed a sigh of relief as I cut away the bubble wrap. Seller took what seemed like forever (about 5 weeks in total) to get it OTD but it was worth the wait.
Now I have to keep my nose to the ground for a sight hood. One pop'd up on Ebay recently and Barry felt it should sell for around $40 so I bid $50 but it hammered for $80 in less than 2 seconds. So now I know what I'll have to shell out to get one. Can always strip a hood from the $100 MKII 3* that I got from the PA auction recently but will try to avoid that if possible.

You have some of the coolest toys Mawkie. Thanyou for sharing them with us. I learned something today, I had always been taught to stay away from Ross rifles because they fail? I'm not sure if that was a particular model but after reading your input, I see them differently.

LONGSHOT said:

thankyou,the info is great,never had my hands on one,sorry i haven't.

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This is a rifle that most Ross collectors won't have either. It's that hard to find. I took a significant risk but knew that if successful it would be a significant acquisition. In nearly 30 yrs of trolling gunshows and auctions in person I've never seen a Ross Commercial Target rifle, in .303 or .280 Ross, offered for sale or display. You can find the US surcharged MKII military rifles as 20,000 were purchased and eventually sold to the public but even these are getting harder to find in original, un-Bubba'd condition. Hell, I can even find a M10 .280 Ross Sporter easier than a Ross Commercial Target rifle. Don't know how many of these were built but it's not a lot. I believe that Barry had the largest collection of these with about 40 examples but I know he's sold off a fair number of those over time (One of those went to me). Who knows, maybe a couple hundred?
Next step is to get a M10 in .280 Ross. Don't know why I want one as I don't collect sporting rifles but it's such a sexy beast and was a ground breaking rifle/round combination. You have to see just how many rifle matches were won by the Ross M10 in the years leading up to WWI to appreciate what a game changer this rifle and round were. Hell, the Russians, who got Ross rifles from the Brits in WWI, were supposed to have used a Ross based design to win Olympic Running Boar matches. They were also so popular for taking game in the field. I have no doubt that to this day there are Ross .280s and .303s still being used to take game.

shaddydan said:

You have some of the coolest toys Mawkie. Thanyou for sharing them with us. I learned something today, I had always been taught to stay away from Ross rifles because they fail? I'm not sure if that was a particular model but after reading your input, I see them differently.

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The rifle with the reputation is the MKIII with the interrupted thread bolt head. The problems were...
1.) Chamber dimensions that were tighter than British spec. Great for the high quality Canadian .303 but too small for over-sized British wartime ammo. Made extraction difficult if not impossible.
2.) A bolt design that allowed for incorrect reassembly. If done wrong the bolt would not lock into battery, allowing it to slam back onto the bolt stop (and perhaps the shooter's face) upon ignition.
3.) A bolt stop with a radius that was too small. It barely engaged the rear of the bolt head thread root. Put too much force on it and with time would deform or break that bolt head thread.
The fixes were...
1.) Ream the chamber to British SMLE specs. You'll find the letters "LC" stamped onto the receiver ring or barrel shank on any Canadian or British Ross that was reamed.
2.) A rivet was installed to prevent improper reassembly of the bolt assembly.
3.) A larger bolt stop was introduced to spread the force out and stop the damage to the bolt head. For a time heat treating the bolt head was performed in an attempt to harden it enough to keep using the smaller bolt stop but this caused more problems than it solved as heat treating in those days was as much an art than science. Remember the low SN Springfield 1903s that had questionable heat treating? Same thing here.
Sadly all the mods worked but came along too late to stop the conversion over to the SMLE and the Ross was delegated to second tier duty and infamy. They were still used in the trenches by snipers who made good use of the inherent accuracy of the MKIII.
The MKIII had some improved features that made it better than the MKII it replaced like a std single row mag with stripper clip loading vs the Harris Controlled Platform used by the MKII that required single round loading (much like the US Krag). It had a heavier barrel that made it very accurate (though the Canuck lugging it wouldn't agree that the heavier barrel was an asset).
The rear sight was now moved from the rear of the barrel to the rear of the receiver and was redesigned to be a much simpler and rugged sight.
The Ross factory did design a shorter "cavalry" version that was more in line with a SMLE or Springfield 1903 but Sam Hughes, the Canadian minister of defense, was reported to be dead set against it and unfortunately it was scrapped. Don't know of any that survived.

Below is a photo of one of my MKIIIs along with a Ross .22 Cadet training rifle.