Butterfly knives and switchblades.

coinboy · Dec 1, 2008

Okay so from the switchblade thread it has me so confused whether you can even own a switchblade in MD muchless conceal it. My dad used to have one and did get arrested for it because of a DWI LONG ago.

The question is that I see people selling butterfly knives in the mall and was wondering the legality of them. I assume it must be legal to buy and sell them but what about possession?

trickg · Dec 1, 2008

coinboy said:
Okay so from the switchblade thread it has me so confused whether you can even own a switchblade in MD muchless conceal it. My dad used to have one and did get arrested for it because of a DWI LONG ago.

The question is that I see people selling butterfly knives in the mall and was wondering the legality of them. I assume it must be legal to buy and sell them but what about possession?

As near as I can tell, butterfly knives, simply due to the fact that they don't have a spring loaded blade, fall under the category of "penknife".

novus collectus · Dec 1, 2008

As Trickg said, but there is confusion because they may also fall under the definition of gravity knife. Although the court precedent about penknives seems rather explicit to me that ANY folding knife that is not automatic is a penknife.

trickg · Dec 1, 2008

It's kind of an interesting rule regarding the definition of "penknife" too because there are knives that are "spring assist" that are essentially switchblades, and the Emerson offerings are even faster with the way they open with the "wave opening feature" that catches on the lip of your pocket, extracting the blade as it's pulled out. The Emerson Karambit is designed so that not only is the blade automatically deployed, but with the ring on the end, it's in your hand in a usable position (reversed fighting grip) as soon as the blade is deployed - and yet by the definition of the law, it is not a switch blade or gravity knife.

coinboy · Dec 1, 2008

So these are illegal in MD right?
http://www.uniqueblade.com/catalog/Real_Italian_Stilettos-16-1.html

novus collectus · Dec 1, 2008

trickg said:
It's kind of an interesting rule regarding the definition of "penknife" too because there are knives that are "spring assist" that are essentially switchblades, and the Emerson offerings are even faster with the way they open with the "wave opening feature" that catches on the lip of your pocket, extracting the blade as it's pulled out. The Emerson Karambit is designed so that not only is the blade automatically deployed, but with the ring on the end, it's in your hand in a usable position (reversed fighting grip) as soon as the blade is deployed - and yet by the definition of the law, it is not a switch blade or gravity knife.

(1) a knife or a penknife having a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, commonly called a switchblade knife or a switchblade penknife; or

The srping assist knives don't have a button, spring or other device that one applies pressure to which is in the handle of the knife.....or at least this is how I gather it.

There is some case law that said as long as it is a penknife, it does not matter if it is concealed open or closed it is not illegal.

I am not a lawyer.

novus collectus · Dec 1, 2008

coinboy said:
So these are illegal in MD right?
http://www.uniqueblade.com/catalog/Real_Italian_Stilettos-16-1.html

With I think the exception of shooting knives, no knives are illegal in MD by state law (local laws differ).
It is the concealed carry and the transfer of switchblades (OTF in this case) and concealed carry of some other knives that are prohibitted.

coinboy · Dec 1, 2008

novus collectus said:
With I think the exception of shooting knives, no knives are illegal in MD by state law (local laws differ).
It is the concealed carry and the transfer of switchblades (OTF in this case) and concealed carry of some other knives that are prohibitted.

So can I buy those knives or is that against the law under the transfer law? BTW-I live in Ho.Co. if it matters.

novus collectus · Dec 1, 2008

coinboy said:
So can I buy those knives or is that against the law under the transfer law? BTW-I live in Ho.Co. if it matters.

I know switchblades are illegal in Baltimore city and I think OC even in your own home, but I do not know about Howard.

Yes, you can buy one of those knives, but only when physically in the few certain states where they sell them legally because sales of them across state lines is illegal under federal law.
If someone had one in MD, it would be illegal for them to give or sell one to you as I understand it.

coinboy · Dec 1, 2008

novus collectus said:
I know switchblades are illegal in Baltimore city and I think OC even in your own home, but I do not know about Howard.

Yes, you can buy one of those knives, but only when physically in the few certain states where they sell them legally because sales of them across state lines is illegal under federal law.
If someone had one in MD, it would be illegal for them to give or sell one to you as I understand it.

So I can't buy it mail order then?

novus collectus · Dec 1, 2008

coinboy said:
So I can't buy it mail order then?

No, you can buy it mail order, but only when you are in Fl, GA, CA, AR...

No, you cannot order it mail order to MD or across any state lines.

coinboy · Dec 1, 2008

novus collectus said:
No, you can buy it mail order, but only when you are in Fl, GA, CA, AR...

No, you cannot order it mail order to MD or across any state lines.

So I can go to FL and buy it then bring it back to MD as long as I don't possess it on my person?

God, laws are stupid! Can't even own a stupid knife.

novus collectus · Dec 1, 2008

coinboy said:
So I can go to FL and buy it then bring it back to MD as long as I don't possess it on my person?

God, laws are stupid! Can't even own a stupid knife.

YOu can possess it and I think you can bring it back to MD across state lines, but I am not sure if you will have to travel through a state where they are illegal though.
Do not fly with it even in checked luggage I hear. You would likely have to travel by ground.

BadShot25 · Dec 4, 2008

I have 3 butterfly knives that I've brought here from overseas without a problem.

novus collectus · Dec 4, 2008

BadShot25 said:
I have 3 butterfly knives that I've brought here from overseas without a problem.

The federal switchblade law does not apply to balisong, or butterfly knives.

smores · Dec 18, 2008

Ranger Surplus in Rockville sells butterfly knives, last time I was there. Also saw a bunch at the Silverado Gun Show in Frederick in November.

WbradM · Nov 10, 2009

legal to own but not to carry

To the best of my understanding, butterfly knives are legal to own (usually as martial arts weapons) but are not permissible for carry. Like most martial arts weapons you can own it, transport it to and from martial arts activities use it in any private property who's owner allows it but concealed carry is not permitted.

novus collectus · Nov 10, 2009

WbradM said:
To the best of my understanding, butterfly knives are legal to own (usually as martial arts weapons) but are not permissible for carry. Like most martial arts weapons you can own it, transport it to and from martial arts activities use it in any private property who's owner allows it but concealed carry is not permitted.

The MD case law says that any folding knife where the blade folds into the handle is a "penknife", so it seems the ballisong knives are legal to carry concealed by state law alone.
Openly carried there is no state law against carrying even swords.

I am not a lawyer, but if you read 4-101 of the criminal law article you will see no prohibition on the open carry of a weapon by adults who do not have the intent to unlawfully injure.

WbradM · Nov 10, 2009

Not a lawyer just a Karate geek.

While the strict wording of Maryland law may allow open carry, the practical definition is legal to own questionable to carry illegal to conceal carry. I want to stay out of jail more that I want to publicly make a legal point. Especially since there are equally good and unquestionably legal choices available.

I'm basing this my experience as a martial artist not a lawyer. In the particular case of butterfly knives I think these fall under the large legal definition of a gravity knife.

I have a friend who was stopped and detained for walking home carrying a sword. A man who robed my karate instructor's truck was caught because he for questioned for carrying one of the stolen tonfa (a generic weapon that wouldn't stand out as one of the stolen items).

While you may not eventually be convicted; open carrying a martial arts weapon will get you questioned and possibly detained. A butterfly knife is most likely the one that could lead to some sort of arrest or conviction depending on a prosecutor's and judges interpretation of existing law particularly since any reasonable way of carrying this knife could be interpreted as concealed.

The law is stupid but I would rather go around it than through it.

Onua · Nov 10, 2009

my ex wife got a DUI , my Balisong was in the truck, they took it and her, god i miss that knife...

Butterfly knives and switchblades.

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