Least penetrating 7.62x54r ammo

Melnic · Jan 5, 2018

airbornetrooper said:
My apologies. How well does the 7.62x25 adapter work? I have seen a couple advertised previously but I remain dubious of their quality.

works fine but bring a rod to push the case out. IT can get stuck.
I took case lube the 2nd time I took it to the outdoor range and a brass rod.

7.62x25 PPU tends to be a lower diameter bullet so accuracy suffers beyond 25 yards.

zero recoil

Rafster63 · Jan 10, 2018

Smith and Wesson M&P 10 with .308 Winchester PDX1 Defender. Here is a demonstration of the Winchester PDX1 defender series of ammunition designed specifically for personal defense. Now you can use a .308 round for home defense without the fear of over penetrating the bad guy.
https://youtu.be/44ZI-a6oI9c

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...08-winchester-120-grain-jacketed-hollow-point

smokey · Jan 10, 2018

alucard0822 said:
Nothing wrong with a full power rifle for home defense, provided it's a handy size, capacity/followup speed is useable. Not much difference tactically IMO between a mosin carbine and 12ga pump with 5 loaded rounds, either will flatten a threat and truck though lots of drywall. "Overpenetration" is grossly exagerated IMO, most any round that will stop a threat will go through drywall, and clear misses are likely enough that I wouldn't put too much stock in a round that underpenetrates in a body. A powerful effective round, especially from a long gun the shooter is proficient with will reduce the probable round count in a defensive shooting, and IMO is safer. Would rather my neighbor take out a threat with a round or two of 7.62 than the neighbor and attacker dumping mags worth of ammo at each other with handguns. Figure any 7.62x54R will have plenty of penetration and devastating power, pick a lighter weight load to reduce recoil and speed followup shots, different schools of thought weather the mild expansion of a SP or the damage from a FMJ yawing and tumbling would be more desireable.

nerd. Also yes. I'm scratching my head a bit at people that are outraged at the thought of using a battle rifle cartridge for defense, that then promote the use of a shotgun instead. "Safety" will be situationally dependent, with the projectile fired probably being the least actually important thing....provided it's a cartridge that can cause enough trauma to quickly stop a threat. Quickly being the operative word.

If you do have to shoot, it means the badguy is actively posing a direct threat. If someone is attempting to harm me or, especially, my family, I want to cause the most amount of trauma that I can as quickly as I can to stop the threat. If you've got something like 5.56 in an ar or tavor, cool. It causes a variety of damage and does limit penetration downrange to some extent. However, it's better to error on the side of overkill vs underkill. If someone's running at your kid with a knife, you don't want to be plinking away at them with something underpowered because of overpenetration concerns.

For the OP, you could always look to the old-school "dum-dum" bullet. Basically, yank the bullet, turn backwards, and re-seat in a controlled manner. If you're not shooting that far out, they smack pretty hard and fragment nearly instantly. They also are much more stable in flight than many would think. It's this or the aforementioned soft-points for what you're asking.

lowoncash · Jan 10, 2018

My uncle was a deputy marshal and worked a fair amount of courtroom and witness protection. He carried a S&W model 36 as a backup. The rounds he used had the projectiles backwards to prevent over penetration. He never shot anyone but was fully confident in his loads.

Threeband · Jan 11, 2018

lowoncash said:
... S&W model 36 as a backup. ... projectiles backwards to prevent over penetration...

The S&W Model 36 is far from being a Main Battle Rifle! It's a small frame, lightweight "snubnose" .38 Special, very Old School.

Back in the day, 40 years ago, it was understood that these little guns could not handle high-pressure +p ammunition, and that the standard pressure stuff was pretty unreliable as a man-stopper.

It was very common back then to load these small-frame .38s with hollow base wadcutter target bullets turned backwards, exposing the huge hollow base of those odd projectile.

This had little to do with any concern about overpenetration: it was an unscientific attempt to get more "stopping power" out of the little revolver.

K31 · Jan 11, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
This is my SHTF home defense gun.

That would be good for retiring replicants.

tallen702 · Jan 11, 2018

K31 said:
That would be good for retiring replicants.

IIRC, the original prop was built on a Mannlicher Schoenauer double-set trigger action.

Sirex · Jan 11, 2018

I guess my question is, what 7.62x54r is this theoretically being shot out of? If a Mosin, like a M44/M38 and you are worried about penetration, maybe look for the Czech 46gr training rounds. I would assume they would still punch thru and intruder. However, I doubt they'd cycle a Vepr. So, if I was forced to use my Mosin for home defense, like all my other weapons were gone, or locked up, I guess I would chose the Czech training ammo 1st, and have some red/black tip rounds in my pocket just in case.

Frundsberg · Jan 14, 2018

Safest home defense firearm for towne houses and apartment complexes is a .410 loaded with light birdshot. It will, of course, penetrate windows so watch your background.

Fishguy · Jan 14, 2018

Frundsberg said:
Safest home defense firearm for towne houses and apartment complexes is a .410 loaded with light birdshot. It will, of course, penetrate windows so watch your background.

Jeeze, not this again. Please don't rely on birdshot for defense or recommend others do this. Birdshot is for birds. It doesn't cause enough trauma or structural damage to a human to effectively stop an attack.

Any round that will reliably end a fight will pass through many types of walls. That is just something that needs to be accounted for. But, as it was said earlier, if you are shooting someone, it is a life or death scenario so the risk of over penetration needs to be weighed against the risk of losing your life or that of a family member to the attacker.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

TargetGrade · Jan 14, 2018

Frundsberg said:
Safest home defense firearm for towne houses and apartment complexes is a .410 loaded with light birdshot. It will, of course, penetrate windows so watch your background.

Yes, safe for the bad guy 9 times out of 10, you might even piss him off. :rolleyes:

wrc · Jan 14, 2018

arbud said:
Is there a type out there that does not penetrate 36" in gel. I might like to use it for home defense. Not if it is going to go through 8 other townhouses.
I know there are better choices guys, just talking about the ammo. thanks

I haven't seen anything commercially loaded for 7.62x54R that meets your need. You want fast and light bullets that will destabilize and fragment quickly after hitting walls to minimize how many they can get through. For .308, the Hornady 110gr V-MAX load (TAP) was considered fairly good for this. Unfortunately, there's a lot less variety available for the .311" bullet used in a 7.62x54R.

https://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/products/311-high-velocity-controlled-chaos-copper-123gr-bullet might work if you handload.

Half-cocked · Jan 14, 2018

TargetGrade said:
Yes, safe for the bad guy 9 times out of 10, you might even piss him off.

Nobody who's ever made this claim has ever volunteered to stand in front of a load of #8 bird shot, even at 50 yards.

Look up what #8 bird shot will do to ballistic gelatin or a slab of meat at 5 yards, a typical home defense distance, and tell me it wouldn't immediately incapacitate anyone.

I used to cut small trees down with #8 bird shot, in my reckless youth. It left no doubts as to what it would do to human flesh.

Boom Boom · Jan 14, 2018

Provided the perp isn't wearing several layers of heavy clothing, birdshot from a 12ga at 5 yds is deadly. Acts like a solid chunk of metal. Creates a wound channel about 4" across and devastates organs. The shot pellets tend to bounce off bone in random directions, amplifying the internal damage.

TargetGrade · Jan 14, 2018

Half-cocked said:
Nobody who's ever made this claim has ever volunteered to stand in front of a load of #8 bird shot, even at 50 yards.

Look up what #8 bird shot will do to ballistic gelatin or a slab of meat at 5 yards, a typical home defense distance, and tell me it wouldn't immediately incapacitate anyone.

I used to cut small trees down with #8 bird shot, in my reckless youth. It left no doubts as to what it would do to human flesh.

Anyone that would volunteer to be shot with a BB gun is an idiot, a 410 even dumber yet. Would birdshot hurt someone... sure, would it kill immediately beyond 10 yards, most likely no. If I were to use a shotgun and I do in some rooms it would be buckshot. Common sense = no brainer and NOT 1/2 oz of #8 birdshot. :rolleyes:

It's a stupid suggestion and even a dumber statement.

Half-cocked · Jan 14, 2018

TargetGrade said:
Anyone that would volunteer to be shot with a BB gun is an idiot, a 410 even dumber yet. Would birdshot hurt someone... sure, would it kill immediately beyond 10 yards, most likely no. If I were to use a shotgun and I do in some rooms it would be buckshot. Common sense = no brainer and NOT 1/2 oz of #8 birdshot. It's a stupid suggestion and even a dumber statement.

What home defense situation calls for shooting someone 30 feet away or more? Home defense is exactly what we're talking about!

I won't post any images of close-range birdshot wounds, for everyone's sake. Google them yourself, and get informed.

The "stupid suggestion and dumber statement" is that bird shot will "just piss him off".

echo6mike · Jan 14, 2018

Threeband said:
Is purpose of bayonet.

Also hunting of the deers.

Tochno!

Boom Boom · Jan 14, 2018

Half-cocked said:
What home defense situation calls for shooting someone 30 feet away or more? Home defense is exactly what we're talking about!

I won't post any images of close-range birdshot wounds, for everyone's sake. Google them yourself, and get informed.

Yep. 5 yards inside my colonial two-story would be a typical maximum distance. 10 yards is conceivable in one or two places but most likely would need to happen the full length of the unfinished basement. Since the point of this thread is to avoid over-penetration inside a townhouse, buckshot would be a terrible choice.

TargetGrade · Jan 14, 2018

Half-cocked said:
What home defense situation calls for shooting someone 30 feet away or more? Home defense is exactly what we're talking about!

I won't post any images of close-range birdshot wounds, for everyone's sake. Google them yourself, and get informed.

The "stupid suggestion and dumber statement" is that bird shot will "just piss him off".

A house with long hallways connected to a living room. Mine has some pretty spacious straightaways.

Doco Overboard · Jan 14, 2018

Deer are killed that far with #6s. No 4's work a little better. Hope I never have to lite off the 30 cal in the house. Whats the best way to go when you have to use a rifle for close up?

Least penetrating 7.62x54r ammo

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