The Ideal Knife Statute for MD

You might say this is a lot of wishful thinking on my part, but you never know. Besides I did all the work for the general assembly ahead of time. All they have to do is sign it! With all the focus on gun politics, this might just slip through unnoticed. It's not like they read most of the bills anyway.

The attached PDF bill is meant to represent an ideal legislative change for not only knife enthusiasts, but martial artist and people wanting some kind of method of self-preservation besides screaming and playing dead.

I present this more for amusement than anything, but still have that bit of hope in the back of my mind that maybe some day it will be a reality.

Where do I sign?

I like it. I don't think 'right to self defense' in MD will ever fly tho as much as I agree with it.

Would simplifying as many knives into one category "folding knives" potentially be easier for law?

I think our knife laws now are extremely lax and we need to keep quiet about them before they get targeted and changed.

CrazySanMan said:

I think our knife laws now are extremely lax and we need to keep quiet about them before they get targeted and changed.

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^This - I should not need the "permission" of the Legislature to perform actions which are legal. They are "elected representation" not "overseers" to whom we report/kowtow.

MJD438 said:

^This - I should not need the "permission" of the Legislature to perform actions which are legal. They are "elected representation" not "overseers" to whom we report/kowtow.

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+1. Also, there is existing case law on the blade length issue. That carries the weight of the law unless/until it is overturned by statute.

Best to keep quiet on this, IMHO.

-Rob

So currently, if it folds, and is not an auto/switchblade, it's legal open or concealed, fixed blades are open only, and not with an unlawful intention. What exactly does the new law gain? Concealed carry of fixed blades or autos would be nice. Repealing 4-105 looks like it would remove a restriction on auto sales which is good though, but not seeing a big difference in 4-101outside of re-stating current law, which is risky IMO.

Valid concerns, which is why I posted this. As the statute stands, several police officers have told me that the apart from the "penknife" exception, the very term "dangerous weapon" is completely open-ended and could be applied to anything carried concealed if the officer is able to articulate a plausible explanation for it being a weapon. Not just fixed-blade knives. While not a widespread problem, I've heard more than a few stories of police abusing or overusing this discretion, even if the charges were dropped later. This is especially a problem with vehicle stops.

glistam said:

the very term "dangerous weapon" is completely open-ended and could be applied to anything carried concealed if the officer is able to articulate a plausible explanation for it being a weapon.

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This is true, and if you check the annotations in the code, you'll find specific examples. The one that springs to mind is a microphone cable used as a dangerous weapon and held as such on appeal following the criminal conviction.

Most, if not all, of the "miscellaneous" weapons that could be classified as such will only be so labeled after they are actually used as a weapon. Before that, the burden is on the state to prove that you are carrying whatever it is with the specific intent to use it as a weapon.

Not really a big deal, IMO, although I would be interested to learn what kind of objects have been involved in these stops you've heard about and what other charges were filed along with the concealed weapon charges.

-Rob

I don't even need to go to the big 'puter to open the pdf. to have a take on this. Existing case law on folding knives puts Md into aprox "very good" situation. In order to try for an Ideal situation , would be rubbing their noses in how good we have things now. If the risk/ potential gain could be worked out at all , it would be far low priority.

Yes 4-101 case law is a mess. It could be greatly improved with a few additional words clarifiying the "...with intent to ...". .

BurtonRW said:

although I would be interested to learn what kind of objects have been involved in these stops you've heard about and what other charges were filed along with the concealed weapon charges.

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Most of the time it is just knives, though I should point out the statute doesn't say any fixed blade knife. It says "dirk" or "bowie." The vagueness however lets it be applied to all fixed blades just "because." I know of a merchant being given the third degree because he had product in his car (boxed and in the back seat) during a speeding traffic stop, and told it was illegal but only a verbal warning was given. Another is a sculptor stopped for running a stop sign who had some pretty non-threatening fixed blades and was cited for that, though the judge later threw it out. This same sculptor was pulled over again again later for expired registration and had taken steps to ensure his knives were in plain view, and the cops arrested him anyway, claiming that they were still concealed, so they could have an excuse to search his car for drugs because he looked like a "hippy" (using the " immediate area incident to arrest" exception to do a non-consensual search of a car). They found none and again the weapon charge was dismissed. There's even been people on this forum who have gotten weapon charges for work tools like duct cutters, chisels or machete in the passenger compartment. Lastly, I personally like to carry an ASP baton but was told it was illegal by police officers during friendly conversation. However when I confront them with the statutory language of 4-101, they relent and admit that they would only be able to sustain a charge if they could prove I had unlawful intentions. But what would happen if I didn't know 4-101 from memory?

I would much rather the law be clearer to prevent such harassment, especially for people that don't know the law as well as I do.

Biggfoot44 said:

In order to try for an Ideal situation , would be rubbing their noses in how good we have things now. If the risk/ potential gain could be worked out at all , it would be far low priority.

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Can't deny it would be nice if this passed though, ignoring the problems of getting it passed in the first place. How do you ever make things better if you never try? But yes to be clear this is just fantasy to explore what it would be like.

I think the "deadly weapon" aspect is the concern. To my understanding, a Victorinox could constitute a "deadly weapon"...and sheeple often freak out over knives just like they do guns. You open a knife to cut up an apple and some lib starts screaming you are going to murder Johnny Appleseed...