Newbie Questions About Self Defense

Yanni The Greek said:

Hey All,
...I have mapped out my residence for possible points of enrtry and potencial distances to BG's and most importanty identifed my backstops.

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That's a good first step, but realize you're going to have little or no control over where/how a fight actually happens should somebody break into your home. Maybe you don't wake up until they're on the stairwell, maybe there are several who each cover an entrance, etc.

Yanni The Greek said:

...my thought is to alternate rounds. First round of #4 shot or PDX-1 and then have 45 Long Colts. Thinking the first shot is for coverage/accuracy/warning and then the 45LC's if the threat(s) keep coming...

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I think Cypher hit this one on the head:

CypherPunk said:

Any experienced and competent instructor will teach you that you shoot to stop a threat - center mass until the threat ceases. You won't have the fine motor skills you think you will under an adrenaline dump.

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Your best bet legally is to get your family together, and call the cops. If the people who broke into your house threaten you, respond with force, not warnings that disorient you and give away your position. Same thing for the silly "just rack the shotgun and they'll run away logic".

If they're in your house, you have to make the assumption that (1) they've cased the place, (2) they know you're likely armed and (3) they don't care. I don't want to shoot, or potentially kill, anyone over a TV - but if they want to do serious harm to my family or myself, then I'll respond with whatever force is necessary.

Yanni The Greek said:

Being in Maryland I'm wondering if pre-loading my firearm in this manner opens up addtional scrutiny from prosecutors in the case I need to protect myself/family from deadly force.

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No more than loading your gun with hollow points, in my humble opinion. I am not a lawyer though. It's not like you have a .50BMG aimed at your door 24/7.

My opinion (and worth exactly what you paid for it!):

No matter what gun you use, if you use ammunition that stops in one layer of sheetrock it will likely have trouble doing enough damage to an attacker as well (meaning: your .410 out of a very short barrel). My point is - a 12ga/20ga slug would work wonders, as would buck shot - and they'll penetrate almost as well as a handgun...and all penetrate more than an AR-15. For an inexperienced home owner, an AR is easier to shoot well, penetrates less than many handguns (9mm, 40S&W, etc.), delivers a bigger punch, etc. Unfortunately, using an AR may be frowned upon in courts in MD (again; I'm not a lawyer, and don't have expertise there) so expect to call in some experts with ballistics experience.

Regardless, dealing with the aftermath means you lived through whatever threatened your life. I think some gun owners in overly restrictive states like MD worry too much about "what if the court/jury/etc.", and too little about "what do I do when somebody tries to kill me". Take it one fight at a time. Worrying too much about the former means you might not make it through the latter.

Two other things also:

1. Criminals are often stupid and or illogical. You can't always expect a home invader on crack to be threatened by anything.
2. Awareness, prevention or a safe retreat (if available) are ALWAYS better options.


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If HP or buckshot to center mass isn't justified, neither is a facefull of no 4 . For that matter being blind and massively disfigured isn't exactly benelovent. If you are so inclined and the situation permits, yell out to the effect of " I'm armed , leave now ! Police are on the way" . If the miscreants depart, you've done your good deed. If they persist, their fate on on their heads morally, not yours.

If you really, really don't want to kill anyone, Tasers these days are better than in previous generations.

PapiBarcelona said:

Maybe the responsibility of firearms just isn't for you?

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WOW! Really? No wonder forums and threads get a bad rep. How on earth does anyone learn with your line of thought. Jesus!

tomrkba said:

NO!

Police departments are our local experts on HANDGUN gun fighting. The military is not. Marketing teams definitely are not experts.

The main point to remember is that biology has not changed, but bullet technology has made smaller bullets more efficient and closed the gap between heavier bullets. Loads that dropped men in 1935 will still work, but the difference between a 9mm FMJ and today's Federal HST is dramatic.

The reasons to avoid such rounds are:

1) Gimmick loads do not have long track records. Street shooting data for statistical analysis is not available. How can you evaluate the bullet except through personal testing?
2) A malicious prosecutor will use anything they can to get a conviction. You may have to waste precious dollars to defend your ammo choice. "RIP rounds are designed to cause MASSIVE suffering! It even says on the box! Youtube shows X inches of penetration--a low level that won't penetrate the torso! The defendant chose this round out of evil intent!" or other such silliness. While they could do the same with any round, it is much more difficult for them to retain credibility when the answer is Baltimore County PD uses it (or hundreds of departments and the FBI use it).
3) Confidence in the round is vital! The goal is to stop the attack as soon as possible. Well known loads and bullets will do that.

The easiest answer is to use the same load as used by your local police department or Sheriff. Otherwise, default to: Federal HST or Hydra-Shok, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, Remington Golden Saber, Hornady Critical Defense, or anything on the FBI approved list.

I personally limit my SEMIAUTO defensive handgun ammo to Federal HST or Hydra-Shok, Speer Gold Dot and Winchester Ranger.

Revolvers can be a bit more difficult. I try to stick with the name brands listed. I like Hornady's XTP bullet for 44 caliber.

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Makes sense, TY

Yanni The Greek said:

WOW! Really? No wonder forums and threads get a bad rep. How on earth does anyone learn with your line of thought. Jesus!

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Don't get deterred. By asking novice questions you have already started taking responsible steps. Read, practice, ask questions, take a class, read more, and practice more.


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ToolAA said:

Don't get deterred. By asking novice questions you have already started taking responsible steps. Read, practice, ask questions, take a class, read more, and practice more.


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TY

Yanni The Greek said:

Let me rephrase...I'd rather not murder someone if I dont have to. If a face full of #4 birdshot isn't enough to make someone think twice before proceeeding further then fine, here comes the 45LC. I guess the use of "warning" was misconstrued.
If i'm being woken out of a peaceful sleep, I'd like to be able to hit BG with a blurry eyed, scared shitless first round that doesnt go into my kids room or a neighbor. Following up with a slug or two from there if I have to. That was the sprit of my question/comment.

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Think about what happens IF HE DIES & you are charged by the police...

A "HEAD SHOT" = a Murder Charge...

Your 1st shot needs to be centered between his **** & it's also a BIGGER TARGET & harder for you to miss, his head is a smaller target & easier to miss particularly if he ducks...

IF he keeps coming it's a different question...

Talk to your local Police Department & understand their rules of engagement...

A "HEAD SHOT" = a Murder Charge...

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Talk to your local Police Department & understand their rules of engagement...

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These statements are why we go to tactical and legal training classes. Attend Mas Ayoob's MAG-40 class if you possibly can.

The passage quoted above by Sgt23 sure enough seems to express a desire to not use deadly force . That's a legitimate choice in life .

If you wish to impart less than lethal effects, then use an actual less than lethal tool . A gun is inherently a deadly force tool , albeit some guns and some loads are less effecent at it. But an inefficent load is still legally and morally deadly force.

Real life isn't the movies, where good guys shoot guns out of the bad guy's hand, or " mere flesh wound" has the shootee just limping after 2min and good as new after the commercial break.

For revolvers, Hornady critical defense is good ammo.

Plus, I can say I picked it because it says defense right on the box.

gwchem said:

For revolvers, Hornady critical defense is good ammo.

Plus, I can say I picked it because it says defense right on the box.

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I have looked at that round for the Governor via gel tests etc...Looks interesting

Yanni The Greek said:

WOW! Really? No wonder forums and threads get a bad rep. How on earth does anyone learn with your line of thought. Jesus!

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Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as a dick. I apologize if you took the comment too personal.

Your mention of "murder" really rubbed me the wrong way. I also felt that you were trolling.

PapiBarcelona said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as a dick. I apologize if you took the comment too personal.

Your mention of "murder" really rubbed me the wrong way. I also felt that you were trolling.

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NP, just trolling for info that's all...

One of the biggest problems with shooting to wound as opposed to kill is it opens a HUGE can of worms for you to be sued by the intruder if he lives or his family if he dies.

Sleepy said:

One of the biggest problems with shooting to wound as opposed to kill is it opens a HUGE can of worms for you to be sued by the intruder if he lives or his family if he dies.

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Interesting take.. My plan would be to shoot to stop the threat as soon as possible and stop shooting when the threat was gone.

You shoot until he not a threat anymore and can't become a threat again. If you plan on wounding someone you'll get sued for everything you own for maiming them.