Nearsightedness and iron sights

I'm not sure where to begin, and my searches here didn't quite find what I'm looking for. After several weeks, it's clear that using iron sights, even at 25 yards with my rifles, just isn't working.

I'm 60 later this year, and been nearsighted since my late 20s. I have 20/20 corrected vision with the lenses, and use them mostly for driving, watching tv or movies, and walking around in stores. Reading or computer screens are fine most of the time unless tired, and I have a pair of very mild prescription reading glasses for those instances.

For years I've gone hunting or plinking using 3x to 9x scopes, all works well and happy. After retiring last October, I decided to get back into rifle "precision" shooting, something I haven't done since my teens (or frankly, since getting discharged from the Navy in '85).

Pulled out my Windham Weaponry SRC rifle, mounted a Nikon 3-9x, and my shot groups were well placed and boringly consistent at 100 yards. Next, I pulled out my safe queen, my brother's former 1995 Colt 6450 9mm carbine, purchased while a LEO for a song apparently, and rarely used. I purchased it from him several years ago and ran some rounds at steel in the woods, but that's it.

This rifle has the classic fixed carry handle with rudimentary windage in the handle, and the fixed but adjustable front sight post. I'm taking a practical rifle course in September, so I put a (my first) red dot o the carry handle. Looks a bit goofy, but I was pleasantly surprised by what a strong cheek weld and good breathing yielded with placement at 25 and 50 yards. 100 yards out I'm still in a torso target but pretty scattered so I need more practice.

Then I decided to cowitness using the iron sights and everything fell apart. I can't focus on the front sight with our without glasses, and the target is often VERY fuzzy and doubled slightly. Just no good sight picture and my placement was shit.

Ok, ok, I tried to blame the rifle. It couldn't be me, right? I bought a second Windham Weaponry, their HBC heavy barrel, which came with the nice detachable A2 rear sight with windage and height, plus the usual fixed but height adjustable front post. Same effing problem! I put the red dot on there with a 1/3 height scope mount so I could co witness, and the red dot placement was gold, nothing I could do with the irons would work.

it's me, it's my damn eyes, and I'm frustrated. I can continue on, start competing in distance with magnifying optics, and dynamic practical rifle timed drills with a red dot, and I'll be fine, and have the dedication to getting better over time. I'm at the range twice a week.

But I want to at least try to solve the iron sight dilemma. Ideas???? Sorry for the long winded frustrated rant...

Human eyes can only focus at one point.. the more your eyes get old.. the more fuzzy (sometimes double vision) the background will be as you noticed.

I don't like using iron sights since I'm practically blind without corrective lens.

If you are wearing your glasses you may want to try a diopter patch or attachment on your glasses. The narrow hole causes your eyes to have a greater depth of field when viewing the sights.

Here are some options:
https://www.amazon.com/EyePal-Sight-Master-Rifles-Pistols/dp/B00DG5Y9GW/

There is also the Merit Optical diopter that has a suction cup to attach to the lens.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1015167397/merit-optical-attachment-with-suction-cup
You can also try electrical tape and poke a hole through it. It is worth trying before you spend any money.

I started with the electrical tape method and it worked well. I ended up buying the Merit optical when I need to shoot precision iron sights.

+1 to what MacMoov says

I have decent distance vision but am farsighted so I have issues with close. If you use glasses for nearsightedness and the glasses make it hard to focus close then the diopter helps tremendously.

Diopter Patch or eyepal needs light though. It's like a camera on a high F stop. It increases depth of focus but you need light. It is easy for anyone to try out. Poke a hole with a pencil in paper and then look through it with good lighting and see how your vision improves. It's really the only solution short of any breakthrus in eye surgery in farsightedness. I had lasik in 2001 to take care of nearsighted eyesight but aging has caught up and now I need reading glasses


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MacMoov said:

If you are wearing your glasses you may want to try a diopter patch or attachment on your glasses. The narrow hole causes your eyes to have a greater depth of field when viewing the sights.

Here are some options:
https://www.amazon.com/EyePal-Sight-Master-Rifles-Pistols/dp/B00DG5Y9GW/

There is also the Merit Optical diopter that has a suction cup to attach to the lens.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1015167397/merit-optical-attachment-with-suction-cup
You can also try electrical tape and poke a hole through it. It is worth trying before you spend any money.

I started with the electrical tape method and it worked well. I ended up buying the Merit optical when I need to shoot precision iron sights.

Click to expand...

I'll be damned. So it adheres to your prescription glasses, forcing you to look through the hole, and from there through the rear sight hole and aligned with the front sight post?

Hey for $20, I'll try anything at this point. Hope it works and is durable, thanks so much for the tip.

John

FYI, If you are using a rear Peep, it may not provide as much improvement. The peep sights are diopters in themselves but not being so close to your eyes, not as a huge effect. I don't use my eyepal with Garand, AR, M1 Carbine or Pistols (I actually use a small HF hole punch into a roll of electrical tape and affix to my eye protection). Some people will use an older prescription glasses for shooting or computer use. Back when I wore glasses, my eye dr said to save the old glasses for computer use and it will help my vision from getting worse.

Well, the eyepal website had a picture of someone using the rear peep sites from a carry handle AR, so I assume SOMEONE may have benefitted. For such a small investment, it's worth the time to try, otherwise my two carry handle ARs get red dots, and the flat top becomes a long range shooter...

Blacken or soot your sights and focus on the target. It can get tougher when you go back to look at your sight graduations for corrections. They say those sight aids do work well though. There are even some lenses that will fit an aperature for hooded service sights. Sinclair has them.

I shot with some guys from LWRC one time and they had a small single plane fiber or hologram type sight that made 300 all day long. I forgot what the hell it was but it may have been only a few inches long and 3/4 inch high. An aperature in between a dime and a nickle size. It may even have been tritium or something and was built real solid. It went on some sort of proprietary rifle they were going to market so the guys from Heroes Haven roasted them for a few hours to check them out. Both eyes open short range and it worked like charm, too easy.

boss281 said:

Next, I pulled out my safe queen, my brother's former 1995 Colt 6450 9mm carbine, purchased while a LEO for a song apparently, and rarely used. I purchased it from him several years ago and ran some rounds at steel in the woods, but that's it.

This rifle has the classic fixed carry handle with rudimentary windage in the handle, and the fixed but adjustable front sight post. I'm taking a practical rifle course in September, so I put a (my first) red dot o the carry handle. Looks a bit goofy, but I was pleasantly surprised by what a strong cheek weld and good breathing yielded with placement at 25 and 50 yards. 100 yards out I'm still in a torso target but pretty scattered so I need more practice.

Click to expand...

You're not really going to get good accuracy with a 9mm carbine at 100 yards. The bullet goes trans-sonic on the way out, depending on the load.

This happens to everyone at some time. An eye doctor in Arizona developed the fix years ago for competition shooters.

Here is the link. When I was shooting High Power, my eyes got to the point were I couldn't clear up the front sight. I put one of Bob Jones' lenses in and it cured the problem.

He will let you swap lenses to see what works better. http://www.bjonessights.com/index.html

Enjoy,

John from MD said:

This happens to everyone at some time. An eye doctor in Arizona developed the fix years ago for competition shooters.

Here is the link. When I was shooting High Power, my eyes got to the point were I couldn't clear up the front sight. I put one of Bob Jones' lenses in and it cured the problem.

He will let you swap lenses to see what works better. http://www.bjonessights.com/index.html

Enjoy,

Click to expand...

Thanks!

jimbobborg said:

You're not really going to get good accuracy with a 9mm carbine at 100 yards. The bullet goes trans-sonic on the way out, depending on the load.

Click to expand...

Yep, get it, but I usually shoot 25, 50 and 100 to break up my sessions since that's about all you can do at the AGC. i don't know of a range that allows movement with a variety of targets at close range out to 50, the sweet spot for my PCC...

I have been neared sighted since the third grade so feel your pain. I am 61 and my eyes 'have their days'. Sometimes things appear crisp, other days not so well. I love iron soghts on both handgun and long gun.

Regular corrective lenses for daily wear stopped working on sights several years back. I do know astigmasm is worse than lack of focus, at least for me. I have been using perscription lenses just for the front sights of my guns. Single focus for the distance from the eye to the front sight. I shoot mostly handgun but the same perscription works for rifle sights.

I have read regular finite focus will soften the eyes lenses some. It may be true since I wear my glasses less around the house and yard recently (over a year now). My eye exam last year confirmed that since there was a marked improvement in my vision. Many times I don't wear any perscription glasses at all when shooting. My eyes do have their days. I do know light plays a huge part of clarity I percieve when focused on sights or target using no corrective lense. This month's exam will yield new shooting lenses since that pesky astigmatism is annoying and shooting irons IS my passion.

Using optics, my regular daily wear perscription works (scratch head). OP posts a similar condition. To the OP, I would suggest trying a perscription lenses just to shoot. You may say, "Hey, so that's what the front sights look like", same as I did.

Magnumite said:

I have read regular finite focus will soften the eyes lenses some. It may be true since I wear my glasses less around the house and yard recently (over a year now). My eye exam last year confirmed that since there was a marked improvement in my vision. Many times I don't wear any perscription glasses at all when shooting. My eyes do have their days. I do know light plays a huge part of clarity I percieve when focused on sights or target using no corrective lense. This month's exam will yield new shooting lenses since that pesky astigmatism is annoying and shooting irons IS my passion.

Click to expand...

Two things of note since I started this topic last week:

First, I went to see my regular eye doctor Friday after posting all this because (despite the above issues mentioned) my distance lenses didn't seem to be working well in other situations. He checked my prescription and said, "uh, this happens from time to time but your prescription has improved. Not common but I see this from time to time. Stop wearing your glasses unless you absolutely need them." So I have. I only wear them in the car, or when we went to the movies Saturday. He also suggested a day of shooting without anything other than clear shooting lenses. I will try that tomorrow morning with my two iron sight rifles I've designated for competition (A1 sights on the pistol caliber carbine, and the A2 sights on the 5.56 rifle). He said if I need to see the front sight better, he'd work with me to do a special prescription and have them tinted any way I want. So I'll see what 25 and 50 yards looks like in the morning at the AGC. Then I'll pin each with Vortex red dots, my first!, and see what 50/100 yards looks like through those optics with and without my current prescription.

Somewhat supportive of all this was yesterday, when I spent the afternoon cleaning the two rifles above. I did this inside my garage, and when done with a final wipe, I quicky looked through both front peep apertures and focused on my mailbox opening ~45 yards down the driveway. The front site was crystal and the opening blurry but visible. Curious, I went out back, marked off 25 yards, set up a 25m zeroing target (see attachment, sorry it seems huge), pulled both rifles and looked through the peeps. Two my surprise, along with the clear front site, I could see the small silhouette...blurry but see it, and no double vision.

I've ordered the eyepal and should be waiting for me when I get home from the AGC range. Interesting...

Ok, I went to the AGC around 8am and shot the Colt 6450 9mm with fixed carry handle A1 front sight, and Windham Weaponry HBC 5.56 with detachable carry handle A2 site. 50 yards, using the target above. Used small peep sight only.

Non prescription gray and yellow shooting glasses only: Can see front sight clearly, target is not clear but it is just fuzzy and not double. 5.56 is dead accurate, 1-2 inch groups, easily zeroed. Colt 9mm carbine isn't quite so consistent, may shoot 1-2 rounds, 3rd might be outlier. Took a while to get fairly consistent 2-4" groups at the 50 yard mark. Again, front site clear, target fuzzy but discernible.

Switched to nearsighted prescription glasses. Took off carry handle of WW HBC, added Vortex Strikefire II red dot. Got it zeroed (the front site was visible but it was so far from "center" of the red dot image I didn't use it) and had nice tight groups, with a stray here and there (I wasn't breathing for shit today, I'll blame the quickly rising temps and humidity). Put adapter and the older Strikefire red dot on the carry handle of the Colt 9mm. Can't see front post but got more or less consistent 2-4" groups at 50y. In both cases, using the red dots and my prescription for distance, I did pretty good. With the iron sights, no prescription worked best out to 50 (100 is TOO far without prescription). Shot Colt and HBC at torso target at 100, all in the numbers but all over, just can't see well enough without magnifying optics.

So, if I want to shoot pistol caliber carbine in IPSC/USPSA or IDPA PCC events, assuming it's all short range (50y or less?) I'll do fine with no prescription with irons and prescription with red dot.

Interesting exercise. My eyepal has been delayed until next week, we'll give that a try when it arrives...

John

Do what a lot of competitive shooters do who are near-sighted (like I was). Have a set of glasses made (yellow tinted is a good option for shooting) with your regular prescription in your non-shooting eye and a close-focus reading prescription in your shooting eye. Best focus distance for the shooting eye is about 18" but that depends on whether you shoot iron sight pistols more than iron sight rifles. With an 18" focus the rear sight will still be pretty sharp as will the front sight. Plus your brain will automatically choose the image from whichever eye looks sharpest, far for one eye and close for the other.

^^
I was going to mention the monovision concept but have only done that with contact lenses. There are lots of options

John from MD said:

This happens to everyone at some time. An eye doctor in Arizona developed the fix years ago for competition shooters.

Here is the link. When I was shooting High Power, my eyes got to the point were I couldn't clear up the front sight. I put one of Bob Jones' lenses in and it cured the problem.

He will let you swap lenses to see what works better. http://www.bjonessights.com/index.html

Enjoy,

Click to expand...

bob jones also has the radar o'reilly glasses with the lenses offset for shooting irons. Gets the focal point in line with how you hold your head when prone or sitting.

photoracer said:

Do what a lot of competitive shooters do who are near-sighted (like I was). Have a set of glasses made (yellow tinted is a good option for shooting) with your regular prescription in your non-shooting eye and a close-focus reading prescription in your shooting eye. Best focus distance for the shooting eye is about 18" but that depends on whether you shoot iron sight pistols more than iron sight rifles. With an 18" focus the rear sight will still be pretty sharp as will the front sight. Plus your brain will automatically choose the image from whichever eye looks sharpest, far for one eye and close for the other.

Click to expand...

Bullseye guys I used to know would take their pistol into the eye exam and show them the exact distance from eye to front sight.