Bench Shooting Questions

Hi All,

I am just getting into shooting with my first rifle (rem 700 in 308 Winchester), and have had some trouble staring to shoot accurately. The range which I frequent only offers bench shooting positions (to my knowledge), and while attempting to zero my scope, the groups that I have been shooting have been rather wide, even though I have a consistent point of aim.

This may be because every time I pull the trigger, I end up jerking back along with the rifle (I would postulate due to bad recoil management). Could some experienced shooters possibly provide some tips on any magical body/hand/head/rifle positioning or easily-available equipment that would help me control the rifle more effectively? (I am assuming that the problem mainly lays in technique, and not my relatively-average upper-body-strength or body mass.)

Thanks,
Steve

I'm no expert, but when I had a Remington 700 in 308 with a bipod and Nikon Monarch 4-16x glass (I still have this scope), with good factory ammo, I could pretty consistently get sub MOA groups at 100 yards. I was new to bolt 308 rifles (or any semi powerful centerfire rifle round), and just assumed that this was typical. Maybe I should have kept the rifle, but I wanted something lighter.

My initial questions would be ...

1) what are you using for a front rest? I see accuracy drops when I use a block or something smooth and solid vs a front bag or a bipod.

2) how's your scope mounted, and are you able to rule out a possible problem with the scope or mount by testing on another platform?

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Steve57 said:

Hi All,

I am just getting into shooting with my first rifle (rem 700 in 308 Winchester), and have had some trouble staring to shoot accurately. The range which I frequent only offers bench shooting positions (to my knowledge), and while attempting to zero my scope, the groups that I have been shooting have been rather wide, even though I have a consistent point of aim.

This may be because every time I pull the trigger, I end up jerking back along with the rifle (I would postulate due to bad recoil management). Could some experienced shooters possibly provide some tips on any magical body/hand/head/rifle positioning or easily-available equipment that would help me control the rifle more effectively? (I am assuming that the problem mainly lays in technique, and not my relatively-average upper-body-strength or body mass.)

Thanks,
Steve

Click to expand...

Hello Steve,
I would highly recommend doing an Appleseed Project shoot. There are posts on here you could search or just google it. Their training is some of the best rifle shooting you could get short of joining the military.
I am retired military and found them to be great training.
Just my .02
Jim

Define "wide"?

What is the distance?

What rests are you using?

What kind of scope?

Have you double checked that everything is screwed tight?

What kind (brand) of ammo is it?

Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, but you say you're getting large groups while "zeroing" the scope, have you shot a string of five shots without changing the scope?

Initially this sounds like anticipation of recoil management. ??
Shooting 7mm rem mag this weekend I had trouble timing trigger pull to heart beat, wow, but practice, practice, practice has always helped me. Good Luck Steve.

Dry fire the rifle and see if the scope moves.
Rest the front of the rifle on the stock, NEVER, rest on the barrel.
Start close and move back.

when at your range, check out the groups others are shooting and if you see some good ones, ask that guy to help you out. also have him and others shoot your rifle to see if they can get it to be accurate (ie see if it's you or the rifle/scope). definitely dry fire some and see if the crosshairs are staying on the target after you pull the trigger. also what ammo are you using, cheap ammo generally doesn't result in nice groups. get a box or two of federal 168 or 175 gold medal and see how that prints.

also, what range/club are you shooting at? if you say, some folks here might be willing to meet you there to help diagnose the problems.

helps to be double up on hearing protection, foamies in your ears and a headset over your ears, less distraction from others shooting plus noise is a factor in flinching.

I would try setting up a 50 yard target and focus on getting used to the recoil and not so much where your hitting. Might take a box of shells. But just focus on a nice easy grip, feeling the trigger break and understanding the kick is not that bad. My gut tells me you are flinching when pulling the trigger causing inaccuracy (ask me how I know?) I've got a Ruger scout 308. The recoil is not bad once your body gets accustomed to it. If you are using a bench. Try a sandbag on front stock, place butt of gun firm on your shoulder, and squeeze trigger gently. I believe once you get comfortable with the recoil accuracy will follow. Keep shooting!!!

Another thing to look for is proper eye relief on the scope. If you are getting black shadows along the edges that move around when you are sighting in on your target you need to adjust your scope or your head position. When you are properly setup you should have a clear scope with no shadows.

To echo K31 , the step before the first step is to shoot an acceptably tight group , before taking an efforts to sight in . Any basic problems with rifle or techniques need to be taken care of first, or else any zeroing efforts would be futile and meaningless .

*************

As regards to shooting techniques , there are two different topics :

"Proper Benchrest " technique, such as seen at USBR or NBRSA matches .

Simply using a form of rest to assist in testing or sighting a rifle that is usually used normally .

For the latter , use hand positions generally similar to what you use offhand , and pull the rifle into the shoulder about the same as you would offhand . Then place either the forend, or your support hand against the sandbag or whatever .

Steve57 said:

Hi All,

I am just getting into shooting with my first rifle (rem 700 in 308 Winchester), and have had some trouble staring to shoot accurately. The range which I frequent only offers bench shooting positions (to my knowledge), and while attempting to zero my scope, the groups that I have been shooting have been rather wide, even though I have a consistent point of aim.

This may be because every time I pull the trigger, I end up jerking back along with the rifle (I would postulate due to bad recoil management). Could some experienced shooters possibly provide some tips on any magical body/hand/head/rifle positioning or easily-available equipment that would help me control the rifle more effectively? (I am assuming that the problem mainly lays in technique, and not my relatively-average upper-body-strength or body mass.)

Thanks,
Steve

Click to expand...

That is a whole lot of rifle for someone just starting. You are likely to develop some bad habits and get discouraged. I second the suggestion to get some training and Appleseed events are good. There is a reason most people start with .22 rimfire.
Here are some upcoming events in Maryland:
https://appleseedinfo.org/schedule/?qstate=MD&state=Maryland

Where are you located we may be able to suggest other opportunities for training in your area?

Since this is your first post you should go to the Introductions sections and introduce yourself.

After you fire the rifle, is the scope still at your aiming point or has it shifted? Which direction did it shift? Change shooting position until it is still on the target after firing. A good bipod or sandbag in the front and the butt on my shoulder is how I shoot from a bench. Sometimes it takes a few adjustments to get the right alignment for me, but I try to get comfortable before I fire the first round. This has served me well especially when hunting and the first shot had to be on target. Once you find the position that works and practice a little, it will become second nature.

Another variable is your rifle. I figure you have already checked to make sure that your scope mounts are tight and are using good ammunition. Perhaps the trigger has too much travel after breaking which will allow you to "pull" the shot slightly off target. Check your muzzle for damage. Never rest on the barrel! Changing ammunition can sometimes produce vastly different groups.

Like others have said, dry fire and see if it is anticipation of recoil. Make sure the scope does not have a problem with crosshairs that shift with each shot. Having someone else fire the gun that is more skilled, can be very helpful. It will let you know if the problem is you, the rifle, or a combination.

You can try a lead sled for zeroing, it will eliminate many of the variables that come from the shooter. Once the lead sled rules out rifle and or scope problems you will know the problem is shooter related. I find it best to work out technique problems with a 22.

Hi All,

Thank you for the helpful responses. Some quick answers/clarifications:

Distance: ~100 meters

Rest: block of wood--turned out to be very unstable and inferior to my backpack--will be replaced by bipod soon
Scope: Leupold VX2 4-12x40, and standard Leupold rings for bored and tapped rifles, mounted myself, and screwed quite tightly (I didn't want to damage the threading or the scope so I didn't screw these down until I could push no further).

Ammo: Winchester White Box (will look at Federal Premium)

Group size: ~2-3 inches not including fliers (one shot in particular that went inexplicably to the far right of the target and had me changing the zero just to find that the previous zero was fine)--as I said, I am not blaming the rifle for the large groups, rather, I feel that it's probably my lack of experience and shaky setup. Also, I initially fell into the trap of zeroing after every shot, only realizing later that I was not in a stable enough position to get a true zero.

Is the rifle pointed at the same spot after firing? No, it would seem (from some extra research) that I was a great example of bad shooting posture (straight back with off-hand gripped by front rest and not helping to steady the stock), which combined with a bit of flinching had me jolting back with the rifle after every shot. (I plan to get a bit of padding and change posture next range outing.)
The reason I went for the 308 as my first rifle (as opposed to a 22), is that I am not in a monetary position to purchase and maintain more than one gun, and I had hoped the rem 700 in 308 would be a rifle with room to grow into as I progressed in shooting (even though I knew it would be harder at the beginning).

I will look into the Appleseed events, but will probably only have time to attend one after the end of this semester at university.

I live in Ann Arundel county (close to Annapolis), but I have only shot in MD at the Myrtle Grove WMA (as it is the only public range within a hour's drive of my house, and I don't know anyone who shoots and would be able to help me get into one of the private ranges closer-by). I also don't really know when I will head out next (shooting is more of an enjoyable rarity to me than a regular part of my schedule).

Plan: Get bipod, look for sandbag, (possibly get padding), check scope focus, try dry-firing, procure better ammo, head out to range and try again, look at Appleseed events.

Thank you all for your exceptionally helpful answers (and any additional comments are more than welcome).
Steve

Don't change sights on the basis of any single shot . 3 to 5 shot group, and make adjustments based on group center .

Great post, Steve. People here like detail when trying to diagnose a problem.

It might be worthwhile to save for an inexpensive bolt action 22 vs getting more gear or a bipod. If you want to do Appleseed, go for a semiautomatic Ruger 10/22 instead (which can also be found cheaply). I believe that some Appleseed events might even have loaner rifles.

Your groups aren't unreasonable for your first time out. You've got a great rifle as well as really nice scope paired with it. You might have a flinch that could be diagnosed shooting with someone that observes you, although repeated practice dry firing might mitigate some of this.

As per the wood block rest, throw a sweatshirt on top of it, or shoot off a backpack with sweatshirts and other bulky soft items inside. I'll often just use my range bag as a front rest. You want to make sure to prevent side-to-side lateral movement which is easy to do with these blocks. I bet the block contributed significantly to some of your fliers. As someone mentioned, make sure that the forend of the stock rests on it, not the barrel.

I bet that you can easily tighten up your groups to under 2 inches at 100 yards, and unless you're using handloads or expensive hunting/target rounds, you would be shooting within an expected range of accuracy, especially with Winchester white box.

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2-3" for first time out, with cheap ammo, and especially a wood rest, ain't that bad. better ammo and either sandbag or bipod up front, then a rear sandbag, will help a LOT. with dry fire, take it real easy on the trigger, and then do that when actually shooting. while 308 recoil ain't pleasant, there is way worse. just wear a winter jacket to help soak up some of the recoil. also, tell yourself that while uncomfortable, you're really not getting hurt, so no need to flinch.

rear sandbag hint - put a pantyhose legging inside a big winter or athletic sock and fill that with airsoft bb's, then tie it all off. you squeeze that as necessary to adjust the rear of the stock up and down so your reticle is centered on target.

Oh, and I forget if the Leupold VX2 4-12x40 has an adjustable parallax setting. If not, Leupold will frequently set parallax to somewhere between 100 and 130 yards for non rimfire scopes (need to look it up on the Leupold website for your model) - perfect for what you're shooting. Otherwise you should be able to adjust the parallax setting on the front objective of the scope for the distance you're shooting.

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With the price of ammo you will be able to afford a lot more shooting practice with a .22.

Here is a resource for you, just start reading:
http://thecmp.org/communications/gary_otm/

http://thecmp.org/training-tech/coaching-resources/