Building a 1911

Hi guys, so recently got my HQL and bought my first 1911, great piece, brand new Iver Johnson. When researching different brands I saw that because of how customizable 1911's are, you can basically build one from scratch. Now I currently am not looking to do this but I would like to know for future use. I thought it would be awesome to build my own custom 1911. I was curious if anyone has any advice for someone who is looking into doing this. I was also curious if there is a whole lot of difference in the 1911 frames, like if I got a fullsize frame would I be about the put like a 3.5-4in barrel and slide on it? Or I saw that there are 6in barrels for 1911's but I didn't see to many 6in slides.

A few questions to get us started.

Are you talking about building one from scratch, ie a few pieces of raw steel?

Would you prefer starting with basic components like a frame, slide, fire control components etc? and making the pieces fit together and work properly?

Do you have the tools necessary to fit these pieces together? I'm asking about files, stones, jigs etc. If not are you willing to make the investment in what you will need to do basic fitting of parts etc.?

Building a 1911 is not like playing with an Erector set. Takes lots of skill and patience and experience to do it well. The guys who do it well get well over $3000 for each one they build and they already have the tools etc. Wait times for one of these can run into years.

My suggestion is purchase a Springfield Armory 1911 then start playing around with it by learning how to fit barrels, stone the sear, adjust the springs, melt a new grip safety, dehorn and so forth. You can gain a lot of experience without putting yourself in much danger.

Welcome to the 1911 club. They are fun to shoot and can be enjoyable to make it yours if that is what you like to do. bob

PS There are 4 basic types of "1911's", Officer, Commander, 5 inch GI and long slide. Some parts are the same on all, some are not. Frames, slides and barrels are quite different between them. Fire control not so much.

Frames there are ramped, non ramped, same with barrels, material of the frame can be Aluminum, Steel, Stainless Steel, etc.
Frame sizes and on.
Won't go into all of it but check here:
https://www.1911builders.com

Next up.
Tools / Jigs / files / stones add up rather quickly.
Patience / skill / time play a huge part in building them.
But they are fun to build, you get out of them what you
put into it. It ain't no AR where you assemble it. You blend
and fit the parts, slide to frame fit, barrel, etc.
Advice if you plan on just building one, buy one already made.
For what you would have in the parts / jigs / tools you probably
could buy 2, just a thought.

-Rock

bob finger said:

A few questions to get us started.

Are you talking about building one from scratch, ie a few pieces of raw steel?

Would you prefer starting with basic components like a frame, slide, fire control components etc? and making the pieces fit together and work properly?

Do you have the tools necessary to fit these pieces together? I'm asking about files, stones, jigs etc. If not are you willing to make the investment in what you will need to do basic fitting of parts etc.?

Building a 1911 is not like playing with an Erector set. Takes lots of skill and patience and experience to do it well. The guys who do it well get well over $3000 for each one they build and they already have the tools etc. Wait times for one of these can run into years.

My suggestion is purchase a Springfield Armory 1911 then start playing around with it by learning how to fit barrels, stone the sear, adjust the springs, melt a new grip safety, dehorn and so forth. You can gain a lot of experience without putting yourself in much danger.

Welcome to the 1911 club. They are fun to shoot and can be enjoyable to make it yours if that is what you like to do. bob

PS There are 4 basic types of "1911's", Officer, Commander, 5 inch GI and long slide. Some parts are the same on all, some are not. Frames, slides and barrels are quite different between them. Fire control not so much.

Click to expand...

Yeah sorry, should have been a little more specific. When I said from scratch meant like being able to start from just a frame and building it up from there. I saw there were basically like kits to build a pistol from the ground up, mainly Glock 17&19 and 1911's. I don't currently have any tools but I was looking more at doing this down the road some, so I would have time to gather what I might need. I was kind of thinking of just getting a cheap 1911 (something like a Chippa, Star, rock island or Springfield, so long as it's mil spec) and just start switching out parts and adding on upgrades, until it was pretty much fully customized just so I have something as a starting point. I was also thinking that I more or less was able to piece something together, I would just need a frame to start with. I was thinking of getting a commander style frame (I believe that's the smallest frame) and put a short barrel on it so it would be like a compact 1911. there was also thoughts of trying to customize a GI style 1911to have basically the longest barrel I could put on it and make it like a marksman pistol.

To anyone interested in building a 1911 I’d suggest Oldham and Kuleck’s “The M1911 Complete Assembly Guide, Volume 2”. Ignore the stupid name—it’s actually a modern build guide. Also ignore Volume 1, and I’ll dare to say it……people always suggest the Kuhnhausen books, but both volumes are incredibly unhelpful to the novice and fairly outdated.

I would suggest novices staying away from a true Officer size, 3-3.5” slide/barrel and short frame. They can be problematic. Recoil spring have a life expectancy of 500 rounds to illustrate their nature.

The Commander is a 4.25” slide/barrel on a full size frame. Some makes label their 4.00” guns as commander length, though that is a misnomer. A sweet set up is what is known as a CCO...a Commander slide/barrel on the Office frame. Make sure you round butt it a little bit and you’ll have a sweet shooting carry gun. Make it a 9mm and an aluminum frame and it won’t be tough to shoot.

For a novice, start with a full 100% machined frame. One poster suggested starting with a Springer - Mil Spec, my addition to the Springer recommendation. You start with a working gun shoot it. Determine the aspects of it you want to improve. Then do one change at a time. That way, if the pistol is problematic after the change you know what area of the pistol the problem lays. It will force you to look close at function and dimension. The Mil Spec, for minimal $$$ can be made into a very nice pistol (it is to start with). The configuration would be what you really want or need in the pistol. Some of the MilSpec pistols have a well, almost gunsmith fit barrel. It will depend on the tolerance stack in the pistol. If you have that...well smile big.

bob finger said:

A few questions to get us started.

Are you talking about building one from scratch, ie a few pieces of raw steel?

Would you prefer starting with basic components like a frame, slide, fire control components etc? and making the pieces fit together and work properly?

Do you have the tools necessary to fit these pieces together? I'm asking about files, stones, jigs etc. If not are you willing to make the investment in what you will need to do basic fitting of parts etc.?

Building a 1911 is not like playing with an Erector set. Takes lots of skill and patience and experience to do it well. The guys who do it well get well over $3000 for each one they build and they already have the tools etc. Wait times for one of these can run into years.

My suggestion is purchase a Springfield Armory 1911 then start playing around with it by learning how to fit barrels, stone the sear, adjust the springs, melt a new grip safety, dehorn and so forth. You can gain a lot of experience without putting yourself in much danger.

Welcome to the 1911 club. They are fun to shoot and can be enjoyable to make it yours if that is what you like to do. bob

PS There are 4 basic types of "1911's", Officer, Commander, 5 inch GI and long slide. Some parts are the same on all, some are not. Frames, slides and barrels are quite different between them. Fire control not so much.

Click to expand...

All good points, and all reasons why although I fundamentally understand what would be involved, it's also the reason I'll stick to buying mid-tier 1911s like Dan Wesson that are pretty much good to go out of the box.

trickg said:

All good points, and all reasons why although I fundamentally understand what would be involved, it's also the reason I'll stick to buying mid-tier 1911s like Dan Wesson that are pretty much good to go out of the box.

Click to expand...

^^^ Yeppers. My experience, until you get to a true customized configuration and quality level it is more cost effective to buy the pistol you want. The catch 22 is one often doesn’t know until they have tried several configurations - that is expensive.

Or you fit, build, file, shape, sand, blend, polish...finish until you know what you like. That is more cost effective. Then you talk to a one off custom shop...you find out the prices start at $5k. So you select, fit, build, file, shape, sand, blend, polish...finish (or send out for finish) your true custom for 30- 40% of the cost. But the requisite understanding and skills are needed to get custom quality and fit.

Magnumite said:

But the requisite understanding and skills are needed to get custom quality and fit.

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That right there is the statement of where the rubber really hits the road. I think my Dad could have done it - I saw him put together parts 1911 pistols more than once - but he also knew that platform really well because he'd been tinkering with 1911s for decades.

I just don't have that knowledge, and I don't know how many tries it would take me to get a good handle on what to do, or even more importantly, what not to do, in order to really finely hand-fit a 1911.

At some point I do plan on taking a whack at it, but it will be at a time when I have the time to really devote to it. I think it's a fascinating subject though - the ability to diagnose, fix and improve guns is IMO a good skill to have.

“I just don't have that knowledge, and I don't know how many tries it would take me to get a good handle on what to do, or even more importantly, what not to do, in order to really finely hand-fit a 1911“.

If I ever see you at the range or a match ask if I have my Marvel topped 1911. The frame assembly is...lots of learning. It, and the original 45 top end I still have for it, used to cower in the corner of the safe every time I opened the safe door...fear of more experimenting. But the frame and both top ends run. One of lessons we learn is knowing when to stop.

Frame just told me, “Yeah, but not in MY earlier days!”

Magnumite said:

“I just don't have that knowledge, and I don't know how many tries it would take me to get a good handle on what to do, or even more importantly, what not to do, in order to really finely hand-fit a 1911“.

If I ever see you at the range or a match ask if I have my Marvel topped 1911. The frame assembly is...lots of learning. It, and the original 45 top end I still have for it, used to cower in the corner of the safe every time I opened the safe door...fear of more experimenting. But the frame and both top ends run. One of lessons we learn is knowing when to stop.

Frame just told me, “Yeah, but not in MY earlier days!”

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Spot on with the comments...
Marvel as in Bob Marvel...we are talking now..

-Rock

Question: If one were to start with something like a mil spec Springfield, and wanted to fit the slide and barrel, then you would need to start with a new slide or a new barrel, correct? Unless the existing ones are so tight that there is material to be removed on them I assume...


There is a good video of Marvel’s 1911 build class on the Tube. Really makes you appreciate what’s involved. I built an acoustic guitar from scratch a couple years ago and it’s a similar commitment and attention to detail, and it definitely wasn’t cheaper than buying a custom one from a builder!

No, there are tools to tighten the slide/frame fit.

The question is if it worth paying the price to buy the tools for a one off build, versus paying someone to do it.

Look at Brownell's for tools. Call them and get one of their catalogs. They have kits of 1911 build tools, as well as just about every tool you might need to do the work.

A set of slide rail tools and blocks will run you over $200 and the frame rail swaging fixture and sizing bars over that. You need at least a substantial 4” vise and a strong bench. You can get by without them but one of the most sickening sounds in the world is that of a slide snapping when you are squeezing it. So at least get the slide rail squeezing blocks.

If you want an ultimate accuracy foundation, fit a new oversized slide and frame or have the pistol in hand rail micro welded. Fitting new oversize slide, frame and barrel will truly test your skill and understanding. Again, improving a base gun has its merits until your understanding and skill level improves.

Is it worth it the peening and squeezing? For an improved blaster I would say no. I have a Tisas SDS US Army. Slide/frame clearances front and rear, lateral and horizontal are all well over .0045”. The front lateral is about .0055”. Not a Bullseye competition grade foundation. Relinking the barrel gave me consistent 2” groups at 25 yards with Aguila ball, Federal ball a bit better.
EDIT: I found the data sheet on this pitol when i worked it.
Slide/frame clearances measured with a dial indicator are:
Vertical: front .006” rear .004”
Lateral: front .009” rear .004”

I have since put in a drop-in Storm Lake barrel, link and pin. I reamed and fitted the carbon bushing I had already fitted to the pistol since it more closely matches the pistols finish. It is shooting 2” maybe a little better at 25 yards. Reason I changed barrels? The hard Tisas finish will destroy files and reamers. I tried to open up the throat to use a lead bullet I had but the finish resisted. I had the SL barrel so I put it in to cut the barrel throat as I wanted. End result is it didn’t need to throat ream it - i.e. Tisas barrels may well be short throated. The pistol shoots consistently and doesn’t throw fliers.

This pistol is svelte and handles well. I stippled the front strap, flattened/stippled the mainspring housing, recontoured the grip safety closer to WWI profile, bobbed the hammer and did the attendant trigger and control work. I did all the fitting Tisas didn’t which required a S&W slide stop. I did under cut the front sight because smooth sights in sunlight aren’t very useful.

The only thing I could do to ‘finish’ this pistol is put on higher visibilty front sights. But being able to see the undercut front at 65 years old, I feel okay with it as is. So now I have a reliable 2” gun for minimal cost.

seawalker said:

Question: If one were to start with something like a mil spec Springfield, and wanted to fit the slide and barrel, then you would need to start with a new slide or a new barrel, correct? Unless the existing ones are so tight that there is material to be removed on them I assume...


There is a good video of Marvel’s 1911 build class on the Tube. Really makes you appreciate what’s involved. I built an acoustic guitar from scratch a couple years ago and it’s a similar commitment and attention to detail, and it definitely wasn’t cheaper than buying a custom one from a builder!

Click to expand...

Springfield’s tolerances are pretty good. If you are starting with a Mil Spec, the chances are really good you’ll have a good slide/frame fit. Chances are good you’ll have a small slide frame it. I’ve examined three and worked on one of those. Heck, on a good day you may just need a barrel bushing because the barrel will be well fitted, too.

So I've been looking around at some of the other forms and parts sites and some are talking about drop-in parts. Does anyone have any experience with these types of parts? Are they really drop in? How do they compare to the 80% parts? Is it really possible to build a decent custom 1911 from these drop in parts( i.e. by simply switching parts out on an already working 1911)? Does anyone know any good drop in 1911 parts companies? Or would it simply best to just hunt down already fitted parts or parts guns? Last question, does anyone know what the shortest barrel you can put on a commander size 1911 frame?

Point #1: Custom and drop-in are oxymorons. You might customize to your requirements with drop-in parts but it will not be custom quality and custom fitted.

Point #2 l: Rule of 1911 thumb, “There are no 1911 drop-in parts”.
Sometimes you get lucky and the part will drop in and work okay. Many times the parts need minor to major fitting for proper function...or just get them onto the pistol.

If the drop-in parts offered are in the bag of parts generally you will not get the best fit. Sometimes it will substandard fit. If all the partsjust drop in the fit typucally is not optimal.

You can put an Officer top end on a Commander frame. Remember, the Commander grip frame is the same length as a Government (full size) frame. The Officer model has the shorter grip frame. There was a pic somewhere on the site of that configuration. Looked it up, here is the thread link, post #31:

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/1911-officer-build-4-25-frame.1030877/page-2#post-13391708

OP, Here is what I did. Started with a Springfield Mil-Spec. No frame to slide fitment as it was not needed. Probably could have picked up a Springfield Ronin for the same money. See url post below.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=6320967&postcount=2258

Magnumite said:

Point #1: Custom and drop-in are oxymorons. You might customize to your requirements with drop-in parts but it will not be custom quality and custom fitted.

Point #2 l: Rule of 1911 thumb, “There are no 1911 drop-in parts”.
Sometimes you get lucky and the part will drop in and work okay. Many times the parts need minor to major fitting for proper function...or just get them onto the pistol.

If the drop-in parts offered are in the bag of parts generally you will not get the best fit. Sometimes it will substandard fit. If all the partsjust drop in the fit typucally is not optimal.

You can put an Officer top end on a Commander frame. Remember, the Commander grip frame is the same length as a Government (full size) frame. The Officer model has the shorter grip frame. There was a pic somewhere on the site of that configuration. Looked it up, here is the thread link, post #31:

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/1911-officer-build-4-25-frame.1030877/page-2#post-13391708

Click to expand...

Mag, ain't that the truth, it "may fit" but...
If it were "just" a drop-in imagine the fit, kinda like one size fits all.
rather do a little work to get that fit, but that's just me, Dykem comes
to mind.

-Rock

Magnumite said:

Springfield’s tolerances are pretty good. If you are starting with a Mil Spec, the chances are really good you’ll have a good slide/frame fit. Chances are good you’ll have a small slide frame it. I’ve examined three and worked on one of those. Heck, on a good day you may just need a barrel bushing because the barrel will be well fitted, too.

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The barrel fit and bushing are the most important in terms of accuracy right? I only handled one Springfield. It’s some kind of custom FBI edition (not TRP) with a basic look, parkerized finish. Free State was selling it used for over 2k. The slide was so tight it was almost impossible to rack. Probably why it hasnt sold!