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Old May 9th, 2021, 07:40 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen65 View Post
Yup. But it's at their discretion, and you can bet there will be political pressure from above to use that discretion to make everything that could be considered a firearm under the GCA, considered a firearm.

IIRC there are already firearms where ATF considers more than one component to be a firearm in and of itself, i.e. one complete gun is comprised of two or more parts that are legally "firearms" independently.

I was surprised they did as little with the new reg as it appears. It wasn't for lack of intent, but they discovered there are limits to how much further they can go without statutory changes.
Unless I missed it, NO.

The NPRM says they will designate one piece and grandfather in what is traditionally been the firearm on older guns.

So, what already has a serial number will be the firearm. Moving forward ATF will decide what the firearm is for new guns once a manufacturer submits it to them for review.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 07:51 AM #42
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Remember their current definitions just got tossed out in court a few times over the last few years. Not just over 80% but with finished AR lowers. The case where the judge realized that the AR lower does not contain all ?4? Parts of the mechanism. Atf quietly backed off to avoid precedent. Iirc, they confiscated, but dropped charges. One of the places was from SoCal iirc, the plastic ar lowers. And a couple others

But I am thinking that even if I currently have a fully finished, BGC purchased, not from an 80% lower, they’re trying to make me get another bgc for the upper to finish it.

We are all just a bunch of criminals to be punished. In the eyes of our rulers.
I think the issue is that a firearm is defined under GCA1968. So ATF is going to be running up against the hard with their redefinition here.

Also the requirements for serializing a home built firearm are also going to run in to GCA1968.

Hopefully it smashes them full in the face. They are still going to run in to the millions of people who will need to mark a “ghost gun” now. And there aren’t a lot of FFLs setup to serialized them and ATF says you can’t serialize your own firearm it sounds like. Not grandfather in existing ones. So in the next basically 5 months a lot of shops that do engraving now will need to file for an FFL if they want to do it, or gunsmiths will need to get laser engravers and what not (if they want to do it).

I don’t see it happening. Which means probably most people will be UNABLE to comply.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 08:04 AM #43
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Or wait, am I reading it right that the serializing requirements on PMFs only apply to a PMF that is possessed/passes through an FFLs hands?

Not to individuals who own one? And how would
That impact an FFL-03?
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Old May 9th, 2021, 08:31 AM #44
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Or wait, am I reading it right that the serializing requirements on PMFs only apply to a PMF that is possessed/passes through an FFLs hands?

Not to individuals who own one? And how would
That impact an FFL-03?
I thought that was already required????
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Thus, the only inquiry that this Court should conduct is to determine whether the firearms prohibited by the Act are protected by the Second Amendment. Because they are, the Act is simply unconstitutional.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 08:41 AM #45
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I thought that was already required????
Yes. Though what must be in the serial is different now. At a minimum.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 09:25 AM #46
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Unless I missed it, NO.

The NPRM says they will designate one piece and grandfather in what is traditionally been the firearm on older guns.

So, what already has a serial number will be the firearm. Moving forward ATF will decide what the firearm is for new guns once a manufacturer submits it to them for review.
You may have missed this:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...rs-as-firearm/

The key sentence is at the end of the eighth paragraph:
"ATF has determined that when two receivers are assembled together into a firearm, this redesigned firearm contains two firearm receivers." The "two" was underlined by ATF in its finding.

The precedent has already been set,; ATF has already proven they can do this, now it's just a matter of whether they intend to expand the idea to more firearms as a result of intense political pressure from the White House.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 11:07 AM #47
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Originally Posted by Allen65 View Post
"ATF has determined that when two receivers are assembled together into a firearm, this redesigned firearm contains two firearm receivers." The "two" was underlined by ATF in its finding.
This is what stopped people from putting an AR15 registered receiver into things like MG42 housings.
https://www.brpguns.com/xmg-belt-fed...pper-receiver/
These were deemed illegal by the ATF before because you can't combine two receivers. If they change their position then all sorts of combinations of sears and registered receivers will power a bunch of odd guns. Could prob get a HK sear or M11 to run a M134 minigun.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 12:24 PM #48
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Awesome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smdub View Post
This is what stopped people from putting an AR15 registered receiver into things like MG42 housings.
https://www.brpguns.com/xmg-belt-fed...pper-receiver/
These were deemed illegal by the ATF before because you can't combine two receivers. If they change their position then all sorts of combinations of sears and registered receivers will power a bunch of odd guns. Could prob get a HK sear or M11 to run a M134 minigun.
Ursula K Le Guin's "Lathe Of Heaven" wins again!

(Its a parable about the law of unintended consequences)
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2A ... Federal Constitutional Preemption

Thus, the only inquiry that this Court should conduct is to determine whether the firearms prohibited by the Act are protected by the Second Amendment. Because they are, the Act is simply unconstitutional.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 10:43 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smdub View Post
This is what stopped people from putting an AR15 registered receiver into things like MG42 housings.
https://www.brpguns.com/xmg-belt-fed...pper-receiver/
These were deemed illegal by the ATF before because you can't combine two receivers. If they change their position then all sorts of combinations of sears and registered receivers will power a bunch of odd guns. Could prob get a HK sear or M11 to run a M134 minigun.
There are far more registered FN FNC sears than FNCs in the US, and if you look at the SCAR and FNC, the fire control group is almost identical. ATF squashed that combination with a quickness.
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Old May 9th, 2021, 10:48 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen65 View Post
You may have missed this:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...rs-as-firearm/

The key sentence is at the end of the eighth paragraph:
"ATF has determined that when two receivers are assembled together into a firearm, this redesigned firearm contains two firearm receivers." The "two" was underlined by ATF in its finding.

The precedent has already been set,; ATF has already proven they can do this, now it's just a matter of whether they intend to expand the idea to more firearms as a result of intense political pressure from the White House.
I read it as they're grandfathering existing designs to their current designated receiver component, but anything designed in there future should expect to have two serialized receiver components if it's a split receiver design.

I'm waiting for them to follow the European model where anything pressure bearing (bolt, barrel, receiver, trunion, slide, e.t.c) must be individually serialized.
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