Can you load .38 bullets in a 9mm case?

Warpspasm · Feb 18, 2011

I was at an outdoor range yesterday and got into a discussion with an older fellow about reloading. He said he's been doing it for many years. I told him I was loading .38sp, .357 mag and 9mm at the moment. When we got onto the subject of bullets, I told him I picked up a couple of thousand cast bullets for the .38/.357 cases. He said, "Hell, you can load them in the 9mm cases too, because the diameter on one is .357 and the other is .356." I questioned if the round would chamber properly and he said they would. I have my doubts. :rolleyes:

Anybody ever heard of doing this?

lx1x · Feb 18, 2011

9mm uses 356 bullets. I think that's diam.

Warpspasm · Feb 18, 2011

lx1x said:
9mm uses 356 bullets. I think that's diam.

Yeah, I have that in my post. That's why I'm questioning the chambering of the larger diameter bullet in the 9mm.

lx1x · Feb 18, 2011

Warpspasm said:
Yeah, I have that in my post. That's why I'm questioning the chambering of the larger diameter bullet in the 9mm.

my bad..

i personally would not do it.. but wait for others to respond. i dont have 38 or 357.

jimbobborg · Feb 18, 2011

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. The larger bullet will work, but your pressures will be higher. I don't recommend it.

Jim

Fustercluck · Feb 18, 2011

With lead bullets, normally you use a bullet that is 0.001" wider than the barrel, in order to get a good seal and bite on the lands. Although it is technically possible to use lead .38 bullets in 9mm, I would not recommend it without knowing the true diameter of your barrel. That means you need to slug the barrel on your 9mm to see what the true barrel diameter is.

A jump of 0.003" or more (from 0.355" barrel to 0.358" lead bullet) is too much, and you risk a kaboom. 0.002" is in a grey area, but I wouldn't chance it.

My advice to you, as a new reloader, is to not mess around with any of the esoteric advice old reloaders give you. People do some really crazy shit with their ammo, and I avoid shooting near them at all costs. Keep your reloading sex to missionary style, and leave the bondage to the weirdos. There is no reason to mix and match 9mm and .38 components.

Danny

SCARCQB · Feb 18, 2011

I tried that a very long time ago in my search for the perfect subsonic 9mm ammo for suppressor use. ( heaviest 9mm load at that time was the 147 subsonic HP)

loaded a 160 grain cast projectile into a 9mm case.

A couple of issues. Chamber pressure will be extremely high- unsafe levels, Lead fouling more apparent, cyling issues. I'm going to have to look for my old data as to powder loads. I cant remember offhand anymore.

I abandoned the experiment when Fiochi and other 9mm manufacturers started cranking out 9mm subsonic loads ( 158 grains). Better suppressors also became available and negated the need for such a load.

4g64loser · Feb 18, 2011

As someone that loads both calibers, I agree with Fustercluck.

I have done some interesting and questionable experiments on the reloading bench but most of that deals with wildcat calibers, sabots, and such, generally in strong rifle actions.

When it comes to handguns, they are designed for much lower pressures. I have heard of guys doing funky stuff like this. I know a guy that does it in a Thompson single shot so that he can get 158gr loads in his 9mm and use a suppressor. That is a SINGLE SHOT weapon and if the case ruptures in a T/C, you aren't as likely to get hurt. I only use the correct projectiles in my handgun loads. Period. Pistol powders are fast burners and can you can experience a sudden pressure spike if you have a blockage (think what happens with a squib load and a second firing).

If you are bound and determined to do it anyway, as fustercluck says, slug your barrel and decide from there.

My biggest issue is that the majority of projectiles for .38/.357 are not exactly designed for reliable feeding in a semiauto. I use Montana Gold bullets in 115 and 147 (my subsonic suppressor-friendly loads) for 9mm and 125 for 38/357. I also shoot 150gr lead in .38 only.

In the amoutns I shoot, i am happy to just buy the two different types of bullets. I'll shoot em eventually. As always with reloading, YMMV and you can do as you please. I am just not willing to needlessly experiment in a weapon that is not as pressure friendly as a bolt action.....

Warpspasm · Feb 18, 2011

I actually wasn't thinking too much about doing. I found the idea questionable at best. Just wondering if anybody here had heard of doing something like that. I'm FAR to wet behind the reloading ears to start any kind of experimenting. Hell, I'm just excited that I don't crush cases anymore!

BFMIN · Feb 18, 2011

Here's where we get to the bit about know it all range duffers didn't actually START with the internet, they did increase in volume though. :lol2:

I remember being told things like:
"In WWII we could shoot the German bullets but they couldn't shoot ours!"

"Just fill the case with powder, if they didn't mean you to fill the case why would they make it so big?"(referring to .45 colt)

"if someone is going to shoot at you at night just string 7 army blankets on lines. German bullets just stop & fall to the ground when they hit 7 army blankets." (I always wanted to test that one in a safe way) :innocent0

Bootknife · Feb 18, 2011

Anyone who starts giving You advise on doing those kind of things should be politely ignored!It's like saying oh I use whatever kind of powder i have on hand!!THAT'S WHY THEY PRINT THOSE MANUALS!Safety is the word.

hvymax · Feb 18, 2011

My approach to heavy unconventional loads is to find the nearest comparable data for loads velocities and pressures and then start with light loads that will not cycle the action and work my way up to loads that work reliably. There are pretty clear relationships between bullet/charge wieghts and velocity to chamber pressures. A chrony with good data can almost be as good as a pressure barrel. If you start light and work your way up carefully watching for signs of eccessivness you should be fine.
Of course not every experiment will work out the way you want but as long as you are carefull you should be able to be your own mad scientist.

mikec · Feb 18, 2011

BFMIN said:
Here's where we get to the bit about know it all range duffers didn't actually START with the internet, they did increase in volume though.

I remember being told things like:
"In WWII we could shoot the German bullets but they couldn't shoot ours!"

"Just fill the case with powder, if they didn't mean you to fill the case why would they make it so big?"(referring to .45 colt)

"if someone is going to shoot at you at night just string 7 army blankets on lines. German bullets just stop & fall to the ground when they hit 7 army blankets." (I always wanted to test that one in a safe way)

How about people saying a 7.62x39 AK could use US 5.56x45 ammo, in Vietnam.

I would love to ask the person who told you that a .308" rifle could safely handle a 8mm bullet? 8mm= .323".

4g64loser · Feb 18, 2011

Bottom line= when it comes to reloading, it is YOUR hand, YOUR gun, YOUR eyes, and YOUR life.

If it sounds fishy, don't do it.

trickg · Feb 18, 2011

Consider for a moment the normal variance in bullet diameter in bullet to bullet, regardless of whether or not they are made for .38/357 or 9mm. I would be willing to bet that when checked with a micrometer there is more than 1/1000th of an inch variance between bullets that are supposedly the same - that's an incredibly small measurement, and it wouldn't take much to cause that much variance.

While I understand the "ideal" would be to always use specific 9mm bullets for 9mm, and 38/357 bullets for .38 special or .357, I doubt that there would be that much difference. Consider also that guns are designed to withstand pressures far and above anything in the "normal" range for various loadings (there is a wide difference in pressure between target loads and defense loads, for instance) that there probably wouldn't be any kind of danger factor either as long as the loader wasn't loading at maximum specs with the slightly larger diameter bullet.

km04 · Feb 18, 2011

Fustercluck said:
Keep your reloading sex to missionary style, and leave the bondage to the weirdos.

sage advice :lol2:

Rockzilla · Feb 18, 2011

4g64loser said:
Bottom line= when it comes to reloading, it is YOUR hand, YOUR gun, YOUR eyes, and YOUR life, other peoples lives

If it sounds fishy, don't do it.

nicely put...added to it...
have played with that a long time ago..in simple high pressure, leading, gun malfunctions, not worth it as you said..I don't want to be no where around and some one will need 911 on speed dial...and no I'm not filling out the incident report for the range...when it would ask "probable cause" = stupidity ..
used to "swage" bullets down some years ago, and would "mic" the diameter, made bullets from jackets back then.

-Rock

BFMIN · Feb 18, 2011

I would love to ask the person who told you that a .308" rifle could safely handle a 8mm bullet? 8mm= .323".

Being a Brit it would have been a .311 bullet, but you're right. I don't even thing you could close the bolt of a .303 on an 8mm Mauser round because of the case lengths. :sad20:

However................

I was at an indoor range a few years ago & it was divided into several "rooms" each with several firing points. Somewhere off to the right was someone shooting something incredibly loud, even through concrete walls. This happened about 8~10 times when there was suddenly a MUCH louder bang & a cease fire was called.

Turned out someone was using 8mm Mauser ammunition in a 7mm Mauser. Amazingly the action took the abuse for those rounds before finally blowing up. :toothless

Kinbote · Feb 18, 2011

As mentioned, it's not a good idea to try it if you don't know exactly what you're doing, but if you're casting your own, it's pretty easy to size bullets for a .357(usually .358 diam after casting) down to .356. I did it when I first started loading 9mm's, but I have never had much luck as far as accuracy with heavier(147gr) cast bullets in 9mm, and things certainly didn't improve with 158 grs. I did end up breaking the barrel lug off of a HP bbl, but I don't think it was related to shooting a few 158's; I had around 50k rds through it before it broke. Probably didn't help it, though.

The RN or TC cast lead feed much better in a semi-auto anyway; most of the heavier .357 are in SWC and will be difficult to seat to the correct OAL.

If you have a single-shot or something other than a semi-auto you have a lot more room to experiment.

Wiley-X · Feb 18, 2011

BFMIN said:
"Just fill the case with powder, if they didn't mean you to fill the case why would they make it so big?"(referring to .45 colt)

I believe that is true if loading with BLACK powder.

Can you load .38 bullets in a 9mm case?

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