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  • Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    I don't think a tourniquet was needed - from what I understand they should only be used as a last resort...

    This was the thought several years ago.

    The fact is Shock Trauma and Dr. Scalea are okay with folks putting them on ASAP. The thought used to be you could end up costing someone the limb by putting it on too soon or if it's not needed. The folks are getting to STC so quickly putting it on ASAP isn't causing any issues.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    The current head of the Baltimore County PD was longtime superintendent of the State Police, Terry Sheridan -- yes, Woollard v Sheridan Sheridan.

    As much as I'd hope BPD squad cars get equipped with ARs, I highly doubt that'll happen with him there and Kevin Kamenetz being county executive.

    Hope I'm wrong here.
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    The current head of the Baltimore County PD was longtime superintendent of the State Police, Terry Sheridan -- yes, Woollard v Sheridan Sheridan.

    As much as I'd hope BPD squad cars get equipped with ARs, I highly doubt that'll happen with him there and Kevin Kamenetz being county executive.

    Hope I'm wrong here.

    I doubt you will see this except for a member of a quick response team of some sort.
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    The cops should have advanced on the bus this would have been done in less than a minute.

    If they would have advanced on the bus the man would have not made it off. If they would have advanced on the van from two angles he would have been stopped since he can't shot from two sides at once. In the military this is support by fire basic tactics would have saved a ton of stray bullets

    Yes 180 but is out numbered on 2 sides. And if you notice when he stops shooting to reload or when fire is retuned he ducks back into the bus once fire superiority is gained you move. And if the police shot at him from boy sides he will duck back into the bus due to the volume of fire.

    There would be dead cops if they were on exact flanks yes agreed. While he was at the van would have been optimal. Yes we in combat arms don't believe in loosing but firefights are won using superior firepower (weapons) fire superiority (volume of effective fire) and maneuver. Military or not all them stray rounds go somplace they just don't vanish in a city. We all want to go home regardless if military or LE

    In any event glad it ended and their were not alotnof bystanders

    Let me guess: your keyboard is in the basement?
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    The current head of the Baltimore County PD was longtime superintendent of the State Police, Terry Sheridan -- yes, Woollard v Sheridan Sheridan.

    As much as I'd hope BPD squad cars get equipped with ARs, I highly doubt that'll happen with him there and Kevin Kamenetz being county executive.

    Hope I'm wrong here.

    BaltCo PD has some ARs in patrol cars. Most of us probably own much better ones.
     

    balttigger

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 15, 2008
    3,051
    Middle River, MD
    This was the thought several years ago.

    The fact is Shock Trauma and Dr. Scalea are okay with folks putting them on ASAP. The thought used to be you could end up costing someone the limb by putting it on too soon or if it's not needed. The folks are getting to STC so quickly putting it on ASAP isn't causing any issues.

    The current EMS protocol is a direct pressure bandage first and then, if bleeding is not stopped, apply a tourniquet just proximal to the hemorrhage site. If 1 tourniquet doesn't stop the bleeding, a 2nd one may be applied proximal to the first. If time of delivery of patient to definitive care is expected to exceed 12 hours, then it is appropriate to release the tourniquet every 2 hours. However if tourniquet is released, closely observe area for bleeding and immediately reapply if bleeding resumes.

    if the victim is in a "Hot Zone" Tactical situation, the tourniquet is applied immediately as high on the limb as possible without taking time to expose the area and the patient extricated to the "Warm Zone" where the tourniquet can be quickly reassessed before transport to the "Cold Zone".
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    I would have given it a go. The thing is, you cannot handle a dynamic problem by being static behind the hood or trunk of a car. The guy would have never expected someone outside that door as he was coming back and forth from the other side. There's a reason for the saying. Speed, Surprise, and Violence of action. It's no different than an armed guard being successful while leaning on the bank counter right in front of the door as a robber comes in.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    I would have given it a go. The thing is, you cannot handle a dynamic problem by being static behind the hood or trunk of a car. The guy would have never expected someone outside that door as he was coming back and forth from the other side. There's a reason for the saying. Speed, Surprise, and Violence of action. It's no different than an armed guard being successful while leaning on the bank counter right in front of the door as a robber comes in.

    Yeah, with all of the cops pretty much either in front of or behind the bus, it's amazing it didn't turn into a Polish Firing Squad.
     

    quickdraw17

    I'd rather be shooting...
    Jun 24, 2013
    82
    The current EMS protocol is a direct pressure bandage first and then, if bleeding is not stopped, apply a tourniquet just proximal to the hemorrhage site. If 1 tourniquet doesn't stop the bleeding, a 2nd one may be applied proximal to the first. If time of delivery of patient to definitive care is expected to exceed 12 hours, then it is appropriate to release the tourniquet every 2 hours. However if tourniquet is released, closely observe area for bleeding and immediately reapply if bleeding resumes.

    if the victim is in a "Hot Zone" Tactical situation, the tourniquet is applied immediately as high on the limb as possible without taking time to expose the area and the patient extricated to the "Warm Zone" where the tourniquet can be quickly reassessed before transport to the "Cold Zone".

    As a general rule, I was taught in TCCC that a tourniquet can be applied, even when not needed, and left on for up to two hours with no adverse or long lasting effects. Not likely to be a problem in most urban areas where hospitals are nearby. I think the longest recorded time was a tourniquet applied to a serious injury to an extremity in Afghanistan for nearly 14 hours before treatment was obtained, and the soldier survived and kept the limb. The "last resort" thing was taught 20-30 years ago, but medical science has progressed since then.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    really nice overview by the ASP channel



    All I can say, is it is a good thing that the guy decided to let all the innocents off the bus.

    There were two BPD officers on the bus. The female was extremely close to the perp. They knew that the guy was wanted, that he had just robbed somebody, and that he was probably armed. Two officers allow him to pull a handgun on them and then they leave the bus with all those potential hostages on the bus. Again, extremely lucky that the guy only had a death wish for himself and law enforcement and he did not want to rack up the civilian body count in the process or use the civilians as human shields.

    Then again, if the officers had fired too soon, we would be looking at a Philando Castille disaster, except the perp was white. Just have no idea why they did not draw their guns as soon as they got on that bus and identified him.

    Has to be a tough job to be a LEO.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    She dropped the ball right there. Left a position of dominance. And screamed as she ran away in the face of danger.
     

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