101 Years ago in the Argonne Forest

Art3 said:

Is there a definitive answer as to whether he was using a 1917 or 1903? I've heard that, statistically, the 17 is much more likely. However, I've also heard the argument that he didn't like the peep sights of the 17, and sought out an 03. Is there any way to know for sure?

(does it really matter? Well...maybe to gun geeks )

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A gun geek like York may have realized (or maybe it didn't matter to him) the longer sight radius of the 17 provided a little more consistency for longer shots, the peep diameter being a little larger and closer to the eye for dim light, the sights being better protected by robust ears with more repeatable settings would have been an asset. Not to mention one more for magazine capacity and 4 degree helical bolt lugs that close through an arc of twenty degrees to cam cut surfaces on the bolt lugs with opposing surfaces on the receiver of approximately 70 degrees of rotation increasing the locking power of the bolt on poorly made, dirty or damaged ammo. The Springfield bolt has to travel nearly 37 degrees I think before it begins to lock up on square mating surfaces.

He may have not liked the weak ejector spring, length of the bolt travel, additional weight or length or the sling that was more than likely issued with a 17 if in fact that's what he used. Or the tendency for the rear ladder to be shoved forward by his hat or helmet if it contacted it when shooting from position but he was probably to clever for that to happen.

Doco Overboard said:

A gun geek like York may have realized (or maybe it didn't matter to him) the longer sight radius of the 17 provided a little more consistency for longer shots, the peep diameter being a little larger and closer to the eye for dim light, the sights being better protected by robust ears with more repeatable settings would have been an asset. Not to mention one more for magazine capacity and 4 degree helical bolt lugs that close through an arc of twenty degrees to cam cut surfaces on the bolt lugs with opposing surfaces on the receiver of approximately 70 degrees of rotation increasing the locking power of the bolt on poorly made, dirty or damaged ammo. The Springfield bolt has to travel nearly 37 degrees I think before it begins to lock up on square mating surfaces.

He may have not liked the weak ejector spring, length of the bolt travel, additional weight or length or the sling that was more than likely issued with a 17 if in fact that's what he used. Or the tendency for the rear ladder to be shoved forward by his hat or helmet if it contacted it when shooting from position but he was probably to clever for that to happen.

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Those could all have been factors in his selection of rifles, but don't forget that the early 1903's had a reputation of a slick as glass action.

ted76 said:

Those could all have been factors in his selection of rifles, but don't forget that the early 1903's had a reputation of a slick as glass action.

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I agree but its also important to remember that that the bolt on a 17 or p14 the dog legged bolt is placed rearward and closer to the users hand for faster manipulation on purpose. Also, with a cock on close design speed of firing is easier to keep up when the rifle gets hot vs a cock on opening rifle like the 03.

I do however believe that York may have preferred an probably carried an 03 because initial training was more than likely done with one. Also because the type of rifle carried for accomplishing his extraordinary feat was never recorded or discussed because he maybe wasn't supposed to have one in France at the time. Whats unusual is that around the same time period the army wanted to select the 03 for mass manufacture. One would think the officials would have seized the opportunity to promote the merits of the rifle. I think I read one time his unit was supplied with both types of rifles at some time or another but the information was not very clear for making an exact determination.

One thing for sure if anybody had the chance to choose between the two rifles regardless of the obvious attributes the m17 or no. 3 rifles had was that an 03 had the golden means of proportion. For myself that would be like choosing between an AMC ambassador and a 66 mustang fastback even if it only had a 260 cid v-8, just by appearance alone.

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:

Depending on who you ask Alvin York carried a 1903 until he got to France when it was replaced by a 1917. Some reports say he liked the '03 better and came up with one. Also...the weapons he used during his MOH action are held at the Middle Tennessee State University...and they're a 1917 rifle and his 1911 pistol.

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No dispute that he used a 1911...but, I seem to recall that the one he actually used was lost or stolen on his way back to the US from
France...

Anything is possible...the NRA and his grandchildren say he used a 1903...York himself insisted he used a 1903. Professor Tom Nolan of Middle Tennessee State who found the exact location of York's Medal of Honor action did an archeological search of the location and found a number of fired cases. He used a fired case from the 1917 held at the school and the tool marks matched and his conclusion was the 1917 they have is the rifle Alvin York used. The archeological and tool mark evidence supports that claim. I don't know whether the 1911 was tested as well.

This will probably be long argued like the Amelia Earhart disappearance and the grassy knoll in Dallas' Dealy Plaza.