A visit from the Maryland State Police

Lex Armarum · Sep 10, 2013

fabsroman said:
That would probably go down something like this:

1) MSP obtains warrant
2) MSP comes and executes the warrant, looking for anything illegal they can find in the process of finding the mentioned firearm
3) After MSP confirms that the firearm is regulated and you did not register it, you get led out in handcuffs.
4) MSP attempts to confiscate the firearm. Don't know if current law allows for confiscation though.

Telling them to go get a warrant in this situation is about as bad as telling them they should be back at headquarters working on Forms 77r. Granted, if you are 100% positive that the firearm in question in unregulated and you have nothing else to hide in the house, then go ahead and tell them to go get a warrant. Just make sure you know what ALL the laws are before telling them to go get a warrant.

It kills me to say this, but being a test case can be rather expensive in more ways than just money. It also kills me to lean toward complying with the MSP request.

There is an alternative but I hesitate to mention it at this time. I'd rather discuss it with you (and only you as a fellow attorney) in private.

Wojo · Sep 10, 2013

fabsroman said:
That would probably go down something like this:

1) MSP obtains warrant
2) MSP comes and executes the warrant, looking for anything illegal they can find in the process of finding the mentioned firearm
3) After MSP confirms that the firearm is regulated and you did not register it, you get led out in handcuffs.
4) MSP attempts to confiscate the firearm. Don't know if current law allows for confiscation though.

Telling them to go get a warrant in this situation is about as bad as telling them they should be back at headquarters working on Forms 77r. Granted, if you are 100% positive that the firearm in question in unregulated and you have nothing else to hide in the house, then go ahead and tell them to go get a warrant. Just make sure you know what ALL the laws are before telling them to go get a warrant.

It kills me to say this, but being a test case can be rather expensive in more ways than just money. It also kills me to lean toward complying with the MSP request.

It would be my hope that a warrant would not be issued, but i forgot for a moment where i live.

Bob.Bee · Sep 10, 2013

zoostation said:
If you would like, might be a good idea to start your own thread on this one. I'm sure everyone would like to hear more about this.

From my friend's fb page:

Maryland State Police just knocked on my door...about my AR10 rifle...that for some reason it was not registered properly...I thought they were about to confiscate it ! But they smiled and said "not to worry sir, we're not here to take it...just need you to fill out some forms"....whew ! Wasn't sure what exactly I would've done if they said they were gonna take it ! Interesting that one of the officers said "were you in the military ? we didn't think you'd be a problem cause we see you have many other firearms registered to you"

i'll ask him tomorrow what forms he filled out...

i just finished reading his fb comments:

no warrant, just the standard NICS form and something else...can't recall...was just happy they weren't confiscating it. But now they have the serial number, make and model of a firearm that should have been an unregulated firearm...wondering if they will come back with more forms for any of the shotguns and bolt action rifle I got. It is odd because I purchased this heavy barrel 308 over a year ago and they tried to make it sound like this was routine. Just makes me wonder.

Ab_Normal · Sep 10, 2013

Rusty Shackleford said:
There is an alternative but I hesitate to mention it at this time. I'd rather discuss it with you (and only you as a fellow attorney) in private.

Go Pro helmet cam streaming live to the internet?

dfens42 · Sep 10, 2013

Do you think they will start issuing hob-nailed jackboots and brown shirts to the Troopers doing these visits?

dejacks · Sep 10, 2013

We have to get Colt to start producing a Maryland compliant rifle if we cannot purchase a clone of the "Sporter H-Bar".

fabsroman · Sep 10, 2013

Ab_Normal said:
From page 6 on the Gansler ruling:

They want to use the 'copies' provision to apply to one firearm but not another. The way the law is worded does not allow for that.

I see you read through that Gansler opinion I gave you. You have been using it a lot lately.

My argument for the AR-10 not being a copy of the AR-15, is that the mags are different, the bolt carrier group is different, the lower itself is larger because of the increase action length, the BCG is different (i.e., larger), and the list goes on. About the only thing that is interchangeable between the AR-15 and AR-10 is the fire control group (i.e., trigger) and the stock. Maybe the hand guard. Am I missing anything else that is interchangeable?

The big snafu with all of this is that we now have an issue regarding heavy barreled AR-15 rifles from other manufacturers, because they cannot stamp them Colt Sporter HBAR without being sued by Colt. So, is Colt going to receive a windfall from this, or is the MSP going to be less stringent about the stamping on the side of the gun if the gun is not a Colt but it has a heavy barrel. Why it is so hard for them to define with a HBAR rifle is, is beyond me, unless they want to continue to screw around with this until d-day on October 1, 2013.

I have not read all the proposed COMAR on this yet. Anybody see anything in it regarding the definition of a HBAR?

Wojo · Sep 10, 2013

Ab_Normal said:
Go Pro helmet cam streaming live to the internet?

Where do i sign up? is SSG tactical in Fburg open tomorrow? Do they have any stamped Colt Hbars?

Ab_Normal · Sep 10, 2013

dfens42 said:
Do you think they will start issuing hob-nailed jackboots and brown shirts to the Troopers doing these visits?

I think the motorcycle troopers already have that style and color of uniform.

dfens42 · Sep 10, 2013

fabsroman said:
I see you read through that Gansler opinion I gave you. You have been using it a lot lately.

My argument for the AR-10 not being a copy of the AR-15, is that the mags are different, the bolt carrier group is different, the lower itself is larger because of the increase action length, the BCG is different (i.e., larger), and the list goes on. About the only thing that is interchangeable between the AR-15 and AR-10 is the fire control group (i.e., trigger) and the stock. Maybe the hand guard. Am I missing anything else that is interchangeable?

The big snafu with all of this is that we now have an issue regarding heavy barreled AR-15 rifles from other manufacturers, because they cannot stamp them Colt Sporter HBAR without being sued by Colt. So, is Colt going to receive a windfall from this, or is the MSP going to be less stringent about the stamping on the side of the gun if the gun is not a Colt but it has a heavy barrel. Why it is so hard for them to define with a HBAR rifle is, is beyond me, unless they want to continue to screw around with this until d-day on October 1, 2013.

I have not read all the proposed COMAR on this yet. Anybody see anything in it regarding the definition of a HBAR?

And other manufacturers make AR-15's stamped HBAR, Windham does I know off the top of my head.

Wojo · Sep 10, 2013

fabsroman said:
I see you read through that Gansler opinion I gave you. You have been using it a lot lately.

My argument for the AR-10 not being a copy of the AR-15, is that the mags are different, the bolt carrier group is different, the lower itself is larger because of the increase action length, the BCG is different (i.e., larger), and the list goes on. About the only thing that is interchangeable between the AR-15 and AR-10 is the fire control group (i.e., trigger) and the stock. Maybe the hand guard. Am I missing anything else that is interchangeable?

I have not read all the proposed COMAR on this yet. Anybody see anything in it regarding the definition of a HBAR?

I am pretty sure the fire control group is not interchangeable either.

Edit: muligan, i was thinking about the takedown pin sizes.

Threeband · Sep 10, 2013

The AR10 is older than the AR15. It's "Armalite Number 10", while it's scaled down kid brother is "Aramalite Number 15".

You'd have a better argument that the AR15 is a copy of the original AR10.

Ab_Normal · Sep 10, 2013

fabsroman said:
I see you read through that Gansler opinion I gave you. You have been using it a lot lately.

My argument for the AR-10 not being a copy of the AR-15, is that the mags are different, the bolt carrier group is different, the lower itself is larger because of the increase action length, the BCG is different (i.e., larger), and the list goes on. About the only thing that is interchangeable between the AR-15 and AR-10 is the fire control group (i.e., trigger) and the stock. Maybe the hand guard. Am I missing anything else that is interchangeable?

The big snafu with all of this is that we now have an issue regarding heavy barreled AR-15 rifles from other manufacturers, because they cannot stamp them Colt Sporter HBAR without being sued by Colt. So, is Colt going to receive a windfall from this, or is the MSP going to be less stringent about the stamping on the side of the gun if the gun is not a Colt but it has a heavy barrel. Why it is so hard for them to define with a HBAR rifle is, is beyond me, unless they want to continue to screw around with this until d-day on October 1, 2013.

I have not read all the proposed COMAR on this yet. Anybody see anything in it regarding the definition of a HBAR?

I read the Gansler opinion long before you linked it. Thanks just the same.

"...or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon...”

That applies to every firearm following that phrase.

dfens42 · Sep 10, 2013

Threeband said:
The AR10 is older than the AR15. It's "Armalite Number 10", while it's scaled down kid brother is "Aramalite Number 15".

You'd have a better argument that the AR15 is a copy of the original AR10.

Let's not bring logic and facts into this!

JasonB · Sep 10, 2013

I wonder if this same sort of thing happens in NYC if the NYPD finds out you drank a 32oz soda while visiting another state.

EL1227 · Sep 10, 2013

dejacks said:
We have to get Colt to start producing a Maryland compliant rifle if we cannot purchase a clone of the "Sporter H-Bar".

Why JUST Colt ? If an AR15 'clone' can be banned, why can't an HBAR 'clone' be legal ... S&W doesn't routinely ignore 'complaince' issues, and specifically manufactures models that do comply. For example:

S&W M&P15ORC SKU #811013 (Optics Ready Compliant)

S&W M&P10 SKU #811310

JasonB · Sep 10, 2013

Maybe they are getting a kickback from colt so that colt can increase their HBAR sales.

CLP · Sep 10, 2013

So are you guys saying a MD compliant mp15 is subject to bringing this unwanted attention just because the lower is not marked HBAR? I dont understand, they can now turn a rifle into something it isn't?

pbharvey · Sep 10, 2013

MD compliant probably only refers to the magazine capacity.

Wojo · Sep 10, 2013

Rusty, i posted in the advise thread you just posted in your IP section but the info may be good here as well.

Any advice in recording a potential visit say with an iPhone etc?

A visit from the Maryland State Police

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