Red Flag info mtg Edgewater AAPD

Bob A · Apr 25, 2019

dblas said:
he did not go to the police but actually followed the law and went to a magistrate and provided the needed information to convince a magistrate. Do you really think a magistrate or a judge would issue an ERPO on heresay?

She presumably provided commentary, her personal "feelings" about her BIL. The magistrate has no way of ascertaining the truth of what she may have said. Magistrates typically provide various restraining orders based on one person's statements. I doubt that the magistrate in question had sufficient knowledge to make any sort of factual determination. I also doubt that the magistrate had full knowledge of the extent of deial of due process in the ERPO legislation to understand the gravity of the situation he was empowering.

Seems to me the SIL's "testimony" is nothing more than "he said/she said" which is pretty much hearsay in my understanding of the term. Couple that with the legislative exclusion covering any reporters' possible perjury in presenting their side of the story (and by "story" I mean "fiction devised for an underhanded purpose") and you have a perfect storm of unconstitutional actions.

dblas · Apr 25, 2019

Bob A said:
She presumably provided commentary, her personal "feelings" about her BIL. The magistrate has no way of ascertaining the truth of what she may have said. Magistrates typically provide various restraining orders based on one person's statements. I doubt that the magistrate in question had sufficient knowledge to make any sort of factual determination. I also doubt that the magistrate had full knowledge of the extent of deial of due process in the ERPO legislation to understand the gravity of the situation he was empowering.

Seems to me the SIL's "testimony" is nothing more than "he said/she said" which is pretty much hearsay in my understanding of the term. Couple that with the legislative exclusion covering any reporters' possible perjury in presenting their side of the story (and by "story" I mean "fiction devised for an underhanded purpose") and you have a perfect storm of unconstitutional actions.

And yet, that is how the bill is written, for her to go to the magistrate and get a intermediate ERPO based on information she provided by filling out the form as requested.

Her going to the magistrate and providing information is a completely different issue that her going to the police and the police going to the magistrate, without first doing an investigation. In the first instance, the law is followed as written, in the second, it is not and hearsay is used by the police unless they do an investigation.

In either case, the accused then gets to face the accuser in the hearing as to wether or not a temporary ERPO should be issued. In the first case, he gets to directly face his SIL, in the second case, he gets to face the police and their chain of evidence.

People seem to be confused on what hearsay is.....

rwbow1969 · Apr 25, 2019

Thanks again Deb Rey.... :sad20:

PowPow · Apr 25, 2019

fabsroman said:
...
The last paragraph loses your credibility for you. Even more so since small Zirkin did not "bully" the 2A crowd this year, but the Moms.
...

Sorry, Fabs. You weren't there to experience Sen Zirkin's bully of us this year. It did happen.

Sen. Zirkin cut off lot's of the the 2A crowd during their testimony. Didn't even give them the courtesy of their full 2 minutes. Heck, he even cut folks short during non-2A testimony, e.g. on immigration stuff that I also chose to testify on that same day. (SB0599) I did get my 2 minutes, but the guy in front of me did not and was interrupted for no good reason other than Zirkin did not see value in his testimony!

Now, I contrast him with Del. Clippinger, who was quite fair during House judiciary hearings. While I don't agree with him politically, I would welcome him to be chair of that committee any time he wanted to serve.

OLM-Medic · Apr 25, 2019

bury a gun or two. Then you won't be screwed by a red flag or some other bogus disarming technique to be used in the future. Probably will start taking away guns from our veterans with PTSD soon.

You don't want to be caught with your pants down if they start doing this in large numbers.

Not_an_outlaw · Apr 25, 2019

PowPow said:
Sorry, Fabs. You weren't there to experience Sen Zirkin's bully of us this year. It did happen.

Sen. Zirkin cut off lot's of the the 2A crowd during their testimony. Didn't even give them the courtesy of their full 2 minutes. Heck, he even cut folks short during non-2A testimony, e.g. on immigration stuff that I also chose to testify on that same day. (SB0599) I did get my 2 minutes, but the guy in front of me did not and was interrupted for no good reason other than Zirkin did not see value in his testimony!

Now, I contrast him with Del. Clippinger, who was quite fair during House judiciary hearings. While I don't agree with him politically, I would welcome him to be chair of that committee any time he wanted to serve.

Thanks for posting this. Zirkin was rude to several people who testified on our side. He let the crazy gazette victim testify to her mental illness and drug problem. She was over the top. She received no scolding. I also believe testimony was severely limited on our side. I remember getting a single time slot to address all the bills.
Fyi - he is also short!

Stoveman · Apr 26, 2019

BeoBill · Apr 26, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
Thanks for posting this. Zirkin was rude to several people who testified on our side. He let the crazy gazette victim testify to her mental illness and drug problem. She was over the top. She received no scolding. I also believe testimony was severely limited on our side. I remember getting a single time slot to address all the bills.
Fyi - he is also short!

I also recall from the video record that the Gazette Cat Lady also went WAAAAY over two minutes and Zirkin just sat in awe.

PowPow · Apr 26, 2019

One strategy in these hearings is to entice our friendly committee members to ask relevant questions. That gets around the stupid 2 minute tactics that they used to squelch our testimony. I remember hearing more than one person in their testimony say, "Please, someone ask me a question!". I think it worked a couple times. With focus, planning, strategy, and participation, we can hopefully keep future legislative ~~disasters~~ infringements like the ERPO law from getting to the governor's desk.

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