P80 Slide Moves- Wolff Spring

Squaregrouper · Mar 29, 2019

I built a P80 G32 and was sending my brass into another zip code. The .357 Sig loads are pretty hot, so I decided to get a stronger recoil spring.
I bought a Wolff, not captured, 22lb spring and guide rod combo and took it to AGC today. I was getting a few light primer strikes and the primer didn't ignite. When I got home, I went ahead and installed the Wolff striker spring and then started playing. This is where it got interesting and I'm stumped...
When I start to squeeze the trigger, the entire slide starts to move rearward and the barrel appears to go out of battery by ~.5-1mm before the trigger fires. I tried this 10-15 times and it happened every time. I put the factory (captured) 17lb spring back in and the slide wouldn't move when I started squeezing the trigger. I put the 22lb Wolff back in and had the same problem again.
Any ideas of what is going on here?

redeye · Mar 29, 2019

I would go back to stock springs and live with the long distance brass flying.

As for the striker spring, the heavier one is sufficiently heavy to not be fully compressed by the trigger bar, which is pulling the slide backwards out of battery as it tries to push the striker tab backwards.

The heavier recoil spring SHOULD make this less likely, since it should be harder to get out of battery... so what you’re describing is counterintuitive... and yet it’s happening.

I’d rig up some kind of a test puller with a scale and see what pull weight it actually requires to get the slide out of battery. My bet would be the 22lb spring is actually less powerful than the stock factory spring.

Squaregrouper · Mar 30, 2019

redeye said:
I would go back to stock springs and live with the long distance brass flying.

As for the striker spring, the heavier one is sufficiently heavy to not be fully compressed by the trigger bar, which is pulling the slide backwards out of battery as it tries to push the striker tab backwards.

The heavier recoil spring SHOULD make this less likely, since it should be harder to get out of battery... so what you’re describing is counterintuitive... and yet it’s happening.

I’d rig up some kind of a test puller with a scale and see what pull weight it actually requires to get the slide out of battery. My bet would be the 22lb spring is actually less powerful than the stock factory spring.

Thanks for the response. To be clear- the striker spring was factory while I was shooting and having light primer strikes. When I came home, I disassembled the striker assembly, looking for any problems. THAT is when I re-assembled it with the stronger spring included with the Wolff 22lb recoil spring and guide rod.
I will look into what you said tomorrow morning, swapping the striker spring back to factory and will see if the issue goes away. As stated in my OP, the captured factory (17lb) spring + Wolff striker spring doesn't allow the slide to move while squeezing the trigger. I will include photos showing what I'm trying to explain with words.
(I have a zero alcohol & firearms rule and I had 3 beers out with friends tonight)

Squaregrouper · Mar 30, 2019

I re-did all of the possible configurations of springs. I have come to the conclusion the Wolff non captured spring and guide rod is the problem, but I don't understand why.
For some reason, when the Wolff 22lb spring is installed, when I start squeezing the trigger, the slide moves rearward ~3/8" and the barrel moves out of battery a tiny bit.
Google-Fu has not helped me.

Magnumite · Mar 30, 2019

It would most likely one of three things.

- the 22 pound rating is determined at a shorter compressed length than what the original spring in your pistol;
- the spring is a variable rate spring which would yield closed breech force less than the identically compressed stock spring;
- incorrect spring in the package

Squaregrouper · Mar 30, 2019

Pictures included to show the out of battery condition. This happens when I start to squeeze the trigger. The first pic is after racking the slide; the second is when the trigger is being squeezed, but prior to firing.
(Disregard the sharpie marks, I was checking for slide to barrel contact)

Squaregrouper · Mar 30, 2019

Magnumite said:
It would most likely one of three things.

- the 22 pound rating is determined at a shorter compressed length than what the is in your pistol;
- the spring is a variable rate spring which would yield closed breech force less than the identically compressed stock spring;
- incorrect spring in the package

I don't understand how the above scenarios would cause the slide and barrel to start moving rearward as I'm squeezing the trigger, but before the trigger breaks. Please explain so I can understand.
I'm totally stumped here.

Magnumite · Mar 31, 2019

If the spring is miss packaged it may be a weaker spring. Measure the stock width, thckness and number of coils.

A variable rate spring will have a lower battery force. It gets stronger per unit of compression. So it stands to reason it will be weaker in battery than the constant rste spring. So I did some quick math. Your 17 pound spring is probably giving you about 7 pounds of force in battery, the variable (if it is) about 4.4 to 5 pounds. The spring force on the striker is probably greater than that, hence your slide movement.

Also to consider is how the coils fill the compression space at full recoil. This will affect in battery force. Word is out about issues like that when converting from round to flat recoils springs.

Squaregrouper · Mar 31, 2019

They are different types of springs, but the Wolff is specific to a Glock 19/23/32 (my P80 is a 32).
The new Wolff spring clearly requires more strength to rack than the factory 17lb spring. I sort of understand what you're saying about striker tension.
Top picture represents Wolff; Bottom represents factory.

Anotherpyr · Mar 31, 2019

squaregrouper said:
I don't understand how the above scenarios would cause the slide and barrel to start moving rearward as I'm squeezing the trigger, but before the trigger breaks. Please explain so I can understand.
I'm totally stumped here.

I’m not sure if I understand the question. So don’t be insulted if this isn’t the answer you’re looking for.

https://youtu.be/pThsdG0FNdc

About 3:50 you’ll see how pulling the trigger compresses the firing pin spring. If the force to compress this spring exceeds the force applied by the recoil spring to hold the slide forward, then the slide will move backwards.

It seems like this scenario would also be accompanied by the slide seeming to be easy to rack initially until the recoil spring force reaches its 22lb rating.

Magnumite · Mar 31, 2019

Looks like a variable rate spring, diameter changes or it s a photo illusion. You may want to call Wolff.

May want to make there is no interference in the frame dust cover to cause spring binding.

pop-gunner · Mar 31, 2019

How hard is it to depress the firing pin safety plunger?
Is there anything in the striker channel that could bind the striker spring and not let it move freely when the trigger is pulled?
Finally with the slide off pull the trigger and see if the trigger bar is rising up high enough to where it would contact the bottom of the slide.

Squaregrouper · Mar 31, 2019

Anotherpyr said:
I’m not sure if I understand the question. So don’t be insulted if this isn’t the answer you’re looking for.

https://youtu.be/pThsdG0FNdc

About 3:50 you’ll see how pulling the trigger compresses the firing pin spring. If the force to compress this spring exceeds the force applied by the recoil spring to hold the slide forward, then the slide will move backwards.

It seems like this scenario would also be accompanied by the slide seeming to be easy to rack initially until the recoil spring force reaches its 22lb rating.

Thank you. I understand the principle now. Sadly, the 22lb recoil spring should have made that even harder to do with a factory striker spring, but it didn't.
Magnumite was on point. I had MDS' (infamous) Wes/Browning Guy go hands on an hour or two ago and he is convinced the spring is the wrong size/too big and is flexing when compressed- causing it to bind.
I will be reaching out to Wolff about the problem. Thanks for the input guys.

Squaregrouper · Apr 14, 2019

OP Update...
I received a replacement spring from Wolff and the questionable spring was, in fact, the wrong one.

P80 Slide Moves- Wolff Spring

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