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Old November 24th, 2020, 09:06 AM #11
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Originally Posted by KingClown View Post
No one said 4A had nothing to do but lets be real here they knew there were guns there and they wanted to take them.

I believe warrants should be needed for everything and not given out like candy. I know SCOTUS ruled the police have no duty to protect the public so Red Flag and Community Care goes against this.
Guns were the reason for the police confiscation action, but the issue for SCOTUS will be 4A.
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Old November 24th, 2020, 09:49 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingClown View Post
No one said 4A had nothing to do but lets be real here they knew there were guns there and they wanted to take them.

I believe warrants should be needed for everything and not given out like candy. I know SCOTUS ruled the police have no duty to protect the public so Red Flag and Community Care goes against this.

But we all know those guns were the motivation. Biden isnt officially anything yet no matter what offices he makes up and the ATF are already starting to carry out his wants and police and Libs are going all out on gun grabbing now too. And its only gonna get worse.
Sigh where to begin........

A) i think you also need to reread Warren

B) the police didn’t just pick this guy at random. The guy threw a gun at his wife and told her to kill him. The guy admitted he did this as well. His mental capacity was clearly diminished and in a bad state.

Now i do agree they should have secured a red flag warrant to seize the firearms (i also don’t like red flag laws) but this man was a danger at that time.

After cleared by the health professionals his firearms should have been returned though.

The police aren’t health professionals and upon being released from the health professionals......well i dunno how i wanna phrase that cuz i also don’t like the idea of them determining our rights.
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Old November 24th, 2020, 05:33 PM #13
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Originally Posted by Rab1515 View Post
I love how they claim to be police to get qualified immunity, and then say they are not police but community caretakers so they can dodge the 4th amendment. Well which is it? You want the benefit of qualified immunity? Then you get everything that comes with it, which means requiring a warrant.
Could this be a good case to dilute qualified immunity? I feel like we need it diluted right now especially with local government actions and Covid 19. Making government officials personally pay when they are found violating our rights could help push back on their overreach.
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Old November 24th, 2020, 06:52 PM #14
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Could this be a good case to dilute qualified immunity? I feel like we need it diluted right now especially with local government actions and Covid 19. Making government officials personally pay when they are found violating our rights could help push back on their overreach.
I second that motion.
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Old November 24th, 2020, 07:54 PM #15
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Originally Posted by StantonCree View Post
Sigh where to begin........

A) i think you also need to reread Warren

B) the police didnít just pick this guy at random. The guy threw a gun at his wife and told her to kill him. The guy admitted he did this as well. His mental capacity was clearly diminished and in a bad state.

Now i do agree they should have secured a red flag warrant to seize the firearms (i also donít like red flag laws) but this man was a danger at that time.

After cleared by the health professionals his firearms should have been returned though.

The police arenít health professionals and upon being released from the health professionals......well i dunno how i wanna phrase that cuz i also donít like the idea of them determining our rights.
No, they shouldn't have used red flag laws for this. If the person was a threat to himself or others then existing laws allow them to get a warrant and they should have.
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Old November 24th, 2020, 08:20 PM #16
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Originally Posted by StantonCree View Post
Sigh where to begin........

A) i think you also need to reread Warren

B) the police didnít just pick this guy at random. The guy threw a gun at his wife and told her to kill him. The guy admitted he did this as well. His mental capacity was clearly diminished and in a bad state.

Now i do agree they should have secured a red flag warrant to seize the firearms (i also donít like red flag laws) but this man was a danger at that time.

After cleared by the health professionals his firearms should have been returned though.

The police arenít health professionals and upon being released from the health professionals......well i dunno how i wanna phrase that cuz i also donít like the idea of them determining our rights.
Why not give guns to chimps? What do you want from police if not this. Each gun suicide puts a nail in the coffin of gun rights.
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Old November 26th, 2020, 01:33 PM #17
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Why stop at taking the guy's guns?

If he's intent on self-destruction, confiscate the contents of his medicine cabinet, any alcoholic beverages on the premises, his car keys, remove dangerous kitchen tools, seal off the upper floors of his dwelling to prevent him harming himself.

Why stop there? There are cars, trucks and buses he could jump in front of, any number of methods of ending his existence are available if he's allowed to roam at will.

The alternative would be confinement in an institution until he was no longer a danger to himself, which seemed to be the method chosen. Taking his weapon would seem to be going a step too far. If institutionalisation was not going to restore his interest in living, locking him up for the rest of his life would be the only solution, apparently.

A man's life is his own. Let him do with it what he will. He didn't appear to threaten his wife, merely indicated that he no longer wished to carry on. Whether that was a reasonable, informed choice is not for me to determine. Whether he would have regretted making it had he been dissuaded is unknowable.

Freedom is scary. Let's make it go away; it's for your own good.
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