Colt official police timing issue

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Anyone knowledgeable on Colts or revolvers in general? The Colt OP I picked up is just a hair out of time. The dealer told me before buying it. So I knew what I was getting in to. Here is the description.

    DA sometimes faces slight extra resistance when the trigger is pulled slowly, but it isn’t noticable on a fast pull and not always on a slow pull. Same in SA. A quick cock and it almost never happens, a slow cock sometimes it hangs a bit. So I am thinking that is the locking pawl and hand being out just a fraction. The pawl operates the moment the hammer starts to move, and appears to release when it should. So my guess is the top of the hand needs to be shortened maybe just a thousandth or an inch or two.

    The next part is when operated slow, but only noticeable in SA, the locking pawl doesn’t engage down fully in to the cylinder channel unless the hammer is moved past full cock (doesn’t need to be moved much past it). Or when the trigger is pulled it rotates the cylinder that last fraction and the locking pawl drops in to the slot on the cylinder. When cocking it quickly, DA or slowly pulling the hammer past full cock and the locking pawl drops in to the cylinder recess and locks it up.

    At a guess this means that the lower part of the hand needs to be lengthened a couple of thousandths by peening.

    On the failure to lock up, even operated slowly about half the time it will drop the pawl in to the cylinder recess. No, none of this seems related to a specific chamber

    The timing just seems ever so slightly off. My plan was to order a new hand from Numerich so I wasn’t messing with my existing one. Then work with that one to get the timing right, realizing that the new hand might need significant fitting rather than just a tweak.

    Thoughts? Or should I just work with the existing hand as the timing is only off a tiny fraction? Also does it sound like I’ve probably diagnosed the issues correctly and what needs to be done (shave the top of the hand a hair and add a hair to the bottom hook)?

    Thanks!
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    Sounds like you have a good plan. I suggest fitting the replacement part as it is easier to remove material than to reshape by peening.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,151
    Sun City West, AZ
    You can stretch the hand as long as it's never had that done before. It's considered a normal part of Colt maintenance or at least used to be. If you buy a new one (if one can be found) it most likely will not be a drop-in...it has to be fitted.

    Here is probably the best book you can own for the care and maintenance of Colt revolvers with the V-mainspring...https://www.amazon.com/Colt-Double-Action-Revolvers-Manual/dp/B000IXMGDS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1537293043&sr=8-4&keywords=jerry+kuhnhausen&dpID=41zbRw0V6FL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Thanks all! Numerich has both new old stock and also new manufacturered hands for Python/Official Police (same hand and frame). I think new it is only $28.
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    If you are in need, I have a few hammer assemblies that are for the Official Police. They clean up nicely and are new old stock. IM me if interested.
     

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    I used a Numrich Python hand im my first model Trooper. A little stoning was necessary, but not much. It was more smoothing than altering.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Good to know. With more reading up, I’ve found a lot of sources that have said the SA behavior is not A-typical for a Colt. That many if you slowly ease back the hammer will only lock-up when the trigger is actually pulled. If you cock the hammer quickly or pull the trigger for DA firing then it does lock up. Otherwise only lockup on trigger pull/sear release. The hesitation when cocking/pulling the trigger sometimes is being very slightly out of time.

    So I will probably get a new hand and play with that. See if I can smooth it up some. For now I am going to take it to the range.
     

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    Good to know. With more reading up, I’ve found a lot of sources that have said the SA behavior is not A-typical for a Colt. That many if you slowly ease back the hammer will only lock-up when the trigger is actually pulled. If you cock the hammer quickly or pull the trigger for DA firing then it does lock up. Otherwise only lockup on trigger pull/sear release. The hesitation when cocking/pulling the trigger sometimes is being very slightly out of time.

    So I will probably get a new hand and play with that. See if I can smooth it up some. For now I am going to take it to the range.

    Yes. When you shoot double action the inertia of the cylinder carries it around to the bolt. Freaked me out until I spoke to someone who had experience with them.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Yes. When you shoot double action the inertia of the cylinder carries it around to the bolt. Freaked me out until I spoke to someone who had experience with them.

    Definitely different from the S&Ws I’ve used.

    But I like it a lot. It looks a little funny compared to a modern revolver, but it grew on me fast just looking at it in the display case. Just reminds me of all the cop and detective shows I watched as a kid in the 80s and early 90s (especially reruns). It feels really good in my hand. Can’t imagine it’ll feel bad shooting with the weight it has and 38sp. I’d be shocked the thr barrel was shot out of a 38 special, but it is mirror bright with great rifling. I am really impatiently waiting to get it to the range.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,151
    Sun City West, AZ
    Colt revolvers of that generation were really a fine piece of engineering. Several parts performed more than one function and the "[second hand" provided for complete lockup at the instant of ignition. The downside is the handwork and fitting required...even for their least expensive revolvers. Back in the day tuning a Colt revolver after extended heavy use was simply considered normal and gunsmiths and police armorers were well acquainted with servicing them. This was when labor was cheap...now the high cost of labor is why these fine V-spring Colts were discontinued for revolvers that require little fitting and some MIM and cast part as opposed to all milled and forged parts.

    It's not that revolvers such as these fine older Colts and Smith revolvers can't be reptlicated today...but few would buy them due to the expense of such hand fitting and older manufacturing techniques and methods.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Colt revolvers of that generation were really a fine piece of engineering. Several parts performed more than one function and the "[second hand" provided for complete lockup at the instant of ignition. The downside is the handwork and fitting required...even for their least expensive revolvers. Back in the day tuning a Colt revolver after extended heavy use was simply considered normal and gunsmiths and police armorers were well acquainted with servicing them. This was when labor was cheap...now the high cost of labor is why these fine V-spring Colts were discontinued for revolvers that require little fitting and some MIM and cast part as opposed to all milled and forged parts.

    It's not that revolvers such as these fine older Colts and Smith revolvers can't be reptlicated today...but few would buy them due to the expense of such hand fitting and older manufacturing techniques and methods.

    Absolutely agreed! One of the things that is shocking to me is the tolerance between everything. The side plate the gap is basically invisible. My finger nail won’t even catch in it no matter how hard I try along the entire length. I’ll absoltuely say as awesome as it is, I don’t think I’d pay what it would cost to make a gun like that these days. Some day, when I’ve got more money and less that I need to spend raising kids, sure. I’d buy a $2k or $3k hand fitted new gun. Probably just one.

    I still have no clue on what this OP is worth, but even with the slight work it needs to correct the unlock timing and that some one reblued it, it feels like way more than the $240 I paid for it.

    It is going to be an heirloom gun my kids get. Not something I ever sell. Though I say that now. I am hoping I will say that after my first range visit still.

    It does have me really wanting something in .357 and a “matching” .357 lever gun. Maybe it is sacrilege, but I am seriously considering a Chiappa Rhino (maybe 5”). I think I’d go more traditional and look for a GP100 or 686 first. Especially if I could find a good deal on a used one.

    All for next year. I’ve spent too much money on guns this year and I just got a $1100 bill for car repairs and the car still needs one more repair that is going to be almost $400. All stuff I just can’t do myself because I don’t have a scan tool to initialize and calibrate crap. I miss when the only computers on a car controlled the fuel injection and spark timing (or there were NO computers).
     

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