BUMP STOCK SUIT FILED!

Hawkeye · Sep 15, 2018

Mark et al, thanks very much for your efforts and for being there for the hearing. I'm an MSI member, and proud to be one.

My letter will be going in the mail on Monday, because even though I don't own a bump stock or hellfire trigger or whatever, I do own a bunch of gun oil, and several of my ARs have ALG triggers in them, which I suppose might be construed as raising the rate of fire of the rifle.

Doctor_M · Sep 15, 2018

Thanks to MSI for all of your efforts (and all future efforts). Will continue to show my support. Sent ATF a request months ago but still send this form as well (so will all of my family members) for good measure. Wondering if we should CC Brian Frosh so his box gets some visibility to the response from all of us (would be nice to inundate him with our compliance letters).

esqappellate · Sep 15, 2018

cantstop said:
I will be sending in my letter today. I didn't even realize the trigger spring kit I put in my P-64 could be banned by this stupid law.

Thanks to Mark and MSI for this ATF letter.

I'm a member of MSI. I just kicked in a few extra bucks thru the Donate link at the MSI website. Hope it helps.

Thank you! Folks, unless you've been a litigator, you just can't fully appreciate how much time and effort went into this effort. We did get something very important out of all that effort, a federal judge saying on the record that all you have to do is apply, regardless of whether the ATF will accept, and you will be good for a year.

IronEye · Sep 15, 2018

Thanks to MSI for making this easy.

I just got back from the Post Office. It was $6.70 to send the application to ATF via certified mail with return receipt.

basscat · Sep 15, 2018

esqappellate said:
Thank you! Folks, unless you've been a litigator, you just can't fully appreciate how much time and effort went into this effort. We did get something very important out of all that effort, a federal judge saying on the record that all you have to do is apply, regardless of whether the ATF will accept, and you will be good for a year.

Forgive my ignorance but why only good for 1 year?

fidelity · Sep 15, 2018

Does the Maryland statue specify how the ATF must be contacted (e.g. send a letter to this address) or what division within the ATF to contact? I'm guessing they didn't bother. I definitely have ALG and other maker trigger upgrades so will use the MSI template. I do realize that the template includes a mailing address, but asking if the legislature (Moon and colleagues) put similar thought into the "asking the ATF for permission" as they did in defining what constitutes a mechanical device that has the potential to increase the rate of fire.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

IronEye · Sep 15, 2018

basscat said:
Forgive my ignorance but why only good for 1 year?

In order to be grandfathered in you must have applied for "permission" from ATF to possess your device by October 1st, 2018. You must have approval issued by the ATF by October 1st, 2019. That's written in the Maryland law.

Inigoes · Sep 15, 2018

Form sent certified mail/return receipt.

MSI, thank you for all you do.

DC-W · Sep 15, 2018

Thank you all!

j_h_smith · Sep 15, 2018

Forgive me for asking this question but with the vagueness of what constitutes a restricted device. How can a couple of pieces of plastic or a few pieces of metal when NOT installed on a firearm be illegal? Is the state of Maryland able to determine my intent for these things? Since I shoot many of my rifles outside of the state of Maryland, why shouldn't I be allowed to own a bump stock or binary trigger and use it when I am outside of the borders of Maryland? Since I am only storing these devices in Maryland and they are not installed on any firearm I own, they cannot increase the firing rate of any firearm. Aren't they then just a couple of pieces of plastic or a few pieces of metal? How can Maryland prove my intent? Are we now going to be subject to the Thought Police?

Abulg1972 · Sep 15, 2018

basscat said:
Forgive my ignorance but why only good for 1 year?

You’re good for life if you “apply” with the BATFE. The grandfather clause requires you to have (1) lawfully possessed the device before 10/1/2018 and (2) applied to the BATFE before 10/1/2018 to possess it. The judge ruled that we could not show irreparable harm (1 of 4 required elements for injunctive relief) because we can avoid prosecution by “applying” to the BAFTE before 10/1/2018. Maryland Law doesn’t require BATFE approval, and it doesn’t even care if BATFE accepts or processes your application, at least according to the judge.

One point of caution on your applications - as I noted above, the carve-out applies only to “devices” that you lawfully owned prior to 10/1/2018. In my application, I am going to make it clear that it relates to everything that could be deemed a “device” and that I own prior to 10/1/2018. I don’t want the state arguing that my application is over-broad and ambiguous or relates to things that aren’t covered by the statute.

Abulg1972 · Sep 15, 2018

Just thinking out loud but I wonder if 17 million device “applications” will prompt the US Attorney General to intervene somehow and tell MD or the Court “make them stop!”

Abulg1972 · Sep 15, 2018

j_h_smith said:
Forgive me for asking this question but with the vagueness of what constitutes a restricted device. How can a couple of pieces of plastic or a few pieces of metal when NOT installed on a firearm be illegal? Is the state of Maryland able to determine my intent for these things? Since I shoot many of my rifles outside of the state of Maryland, why shouldn't I be allowed to own a bump stock or binary trigger and use it when I am outside of the borders of Maryland? Since I am only storing these devices in Maryland and they are not installed on any firearm I own, they cannot increase the firing rate of any firearm. Aren't they then just a couple of pieces of plastic or a few pieces of metal? How can Maryland prove my intent? Are we now going to be subject to the Thought Police?

Because the law prohibits possession of the “device.” It doesn’t have to be actually installed - if, if and when installed, it has the prohibited attribute, it is banned.

iH8DemLibz · Sep 15, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
Just thinking out loud but I wonder if 17 million device “applications” will prompt the US Attorney General to intervene somehow and tell MD or the Court “make them stop!”

This is why I've been begging folks to write letters and send e-mails since the Governor signed the bill into law.

Overwhelm the ATF with requests. Make the ATF sit up and ask WTF is going on.

As other's have already stated, thanks to those who see the importance of sending in the request form.

Whether you own an RFTA or not.

IronEye · Sep 15, 2018

Sorry, that is not correct. You're good for another year if you applied. If you are not approved by the ATF by Oct 1st 2019 you are in violation of the law.

This section does not apply to the possession of a rapid fire trigger activator by a person who:

(1) possessed the rapid fire trigger activator before October 1, 2018;
(2) applied to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives before October 1, 2018, for authorization to possess a rapid fire trigger activator; [and]
(3) RECEIVED AUTHORIZATION TO POSSESS A RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR FROM THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES BEFORE OCTOBER 1,2019; AND
(4) is in compliance with all federal requirements for possession of a rapid fire trigger activator.

j_h_smith · Sep 15, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
Because the law prohibits possession of the “device.” It doesn’t have to be actually installed - if, if and when installed, it has the prohibited attribute, it is banned.

But if it's not installed, it isn't a device that can increase the firing rate of a firearm. Its just plastic or metal. Nothing more.

Occam · Sep 15, 2018

j_h_smith said:
But if it's not installed, it isn't a device that can increase the firing rate of a firearm. Its just plastic or metal. Nothing more.

That line of reasoning doesn’t work with such possession bans any more than does saying, “But this MP5 isn’t a machine gun, it’s just some metal and plastic until I load it and pull the trigger.”

iH8DemLibz · Sep 15, 2018

j_h_smith said:
But if it's not installed, it isn't a device that can increase the firing rate of a firearm. Its just plastic or metal. Nothing more.

A full auto sear that isn't installed is still a full auto sear.

Maryland may have us by the short hairs come 10-1-19.

If you take your RFTA to the MSP on 10-2-19 and say Nanny Nanny Boo Boo look at my RFTA, without an ATF approval letter, please film it.

Abulg1972 · Sep 15, 2018

IronEye said:
Sorry, that is not correct. You're good for another year if you applied. If you are not approved by the ATF by Oct 1st 2019 you are in violation of the law.

This section does not apply to the possession of a rapid fire trigger activator by a person who:

(1) possessed the rapid fire trigger activator before October 1, 2018;

(2) applied to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and

Explosives before October 1, 2018, for authorization to possess a rapid fire trigger activator; [and]

(3) RECEIVED AUTHORIZATION TO POSSESS A RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR FROM THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES BEFORE OCTOBER 1,2019; AND

(4) is in compliance with all federal requirements for possession of a rapid fire trigger activator.

Ah, I stand corrected. I was looking at the Bill on my phone and it is showing two different Section 4-305.1s.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018RS/bills/hb/hb0888t.pdf

Abulg1972 · Sep 15, 2018

j_h_smith said:
But if it's not installed, it isn't a device that can increase the firing rate of a firearm. Its just plastic or metal. Nothing more.

Wrong.

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