Colion Noir vs Bill Maher

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    spoon059

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    5,393
    MrNiceGuy said:
    . Even if the US military were willing to fight a popular revolutionary uprising in the US - even if they were willing to kill their own friends, neighbors, even family members - asymmetric warfare is very easily carried out until the larger side runs out of resources or will.
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    And the reason that North Vietnam still exists and that Al Sadr is still alive is because the Liberal Left couldn't stomach the true cost of war. War is bitter, war is horrible. I am not a proponent of war, but if it must be fought, it must be fought viciously. I doubt that the Liberal Left would be able to stomach the true cost of violent disarmament of our citizens.
     
    jbrown50

    jbrown50

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 18, 2014
    3,472
    DC
    MrNiceGuy said:
    Never surrender to the false premise that the Second Amendment had anything to do with slavery. When someone tries to lay that BS in front of you, tell them it's false and ask them if they've read Federalist 29 or Federalist 46, both of which very clearly lay out the reasoning for the Second Amendment in plain and simple language.

    These were farmers, doctors, and lawyers who had to resort to using their privately owned guns an ammunition to overthrow their government. They had no faith that the new government would somehow be perfect and immune to the same types of abuses. They wanted to ensure that future generations maintained the ability to forcibly form a new government if and when it became necessary.

    And when they laugh at you mockingly about regular people with small arms standing up to the full force and might of the US military, ask them how the North Vietnamese are doing these days, or the Taliban. Ask them how Muqtada al-Sadr is, now that his party owns 54 seats in Iraq. Even if the US military were willing to fight a popular revolutionary uprising in the US - even if they were willing to kill their own friends, neighbors, even family members - asymmetric warfare is very easily carried out until the larger side runs out of resources or will.
    Click to expand...

    You're right when making a point with reasonable people but these leftist loons aren't reasonable.

    Telling someone to read the federalist papers who refuses to even pick up a history book is like telling a turtle to shed it's shell. It's a waste of time and effort against ignorance coupled with emotion. I simply take their made up "it's the white man's lie" 'logic', turn it around and throw it right back into their face. No matter how much you insist on rewriting the past it's extremely more difficult to rewrite the present.
     
    jrumann59

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Redcobra said:
    Maher is a Libertarian Comedian. He has been known to ridicule everybody at some point. Saw a show once where he went off on Obama.
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    Libertarianism is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle. Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association, and individual judgment. Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing political and economic systems.

    Bill Maher can where lipstick and call himself Nancy but that does not mean he is a woman.

    Is more Liberal-tarian than Libertarian.
     
    Boondock Saint

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,445
    White Marsh
    Today is the first time I've heard anyone refer to Bill Maher as a libertarian. Nope.

    Penn and Teller are libertarians. Bill Maher is a liberal blowhard.

    Colion Noir is a fantastic 2A advocate.
     
    jrumann59

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Boondock Saint said:
    Today is the first time I've heard anyone refer to Bill Maher as a libertarian. Nope.

    Penn and Teller are libertarians. Bill Maher is a liberal blowhard.

    Colion Noir is a fantastic 2A advocate.
    Click to expand...


    IIRC I know he is PETA member but I think he held a position similar to Wayne LaPierre in PETA.
     
    CrabcakesAndFootball

    CrabcakesAndFootball

    Active Member
    Jun 14, 2017
    697
    I thought Noir did a fine job. Like others, I was surprised that Maher did not push harder. I do think Maher gave Noir a great opportunity to explain that semi-auto rifles are not used in the vast majority of "gun" crimes. That still is a surprise to some people, so I think it is helpful to repeat it.
     
    P

    Panther

    Member
    Jan 22, 2017
    39
    Lanham
    danb said:
    Bill Maher is well known to own guns. He is also somewhat libertarian. This was a very good interview. I think Maher was being honest in this interview.
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    I agree. I’ve watched shows in the past and he openly admits that he likes guns and owns guns. I think, like you, that this was an honest interview and a good dialogue.
     
    Mr. Ed

    Mr. Ed

    This IS my Happy Face
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2009
    7,915
    Edgewater
    spoon059 said:
    And the reason that North Vietnam still exists and that Al Sadr is still alive is because the Liberal Left couldn't stomach the true cost of war. War is bitter, war is horrible. I am not a proponent of war, but if it must be fought, it must be fought viciously. I doubt that the Liberal Left would be able to stomach the true cost of violent disarmament of our citizens.
    Click to expand...

    Your post reminds me of the Mel Gibson movie, The Patriot. In his meeting with general Cornwallis when he was negotiating for the release of his captured troops, Gibson's character made a point of letting the general know that he and his men would target British officers at the outset of every engagement. Perhaps, hypothetically speaking, if it comes to that, those of us who are compelled to defend our freedom and country should also target the leaders of the left. Not so much the officers, but the politicians who made it necessary. Perhaps that would bring the conflict to the swiftest conclusion. I pray it never happens, and I know we will not be the ones who initiate the conflict.
     
    R

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    jrumann59 said:
    In Bill's defense he brings up a recent article where the author believes that the 2A was for the keeping slaves in line.
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    Frankly I think that bringing that up with in a discussion with an African America Second Amendment supporter is a bit racist. Besides it being untrue it is condescending and patronizing: "please let me tell you what you should think as a black guy." It is reminiscent of the people attacking Kanye West. The left is going nuts with the new surveys showing African Americans male support for Trump went from 11% to 22% the past year. The patronizing lecturing from non African Americans on the left is over the top

    There is no reason whatsoever to think Mr. Noir doesn't know US history regarding the Second Amendment or what he should think.

    Panther said:
    I agree. I’ve watched shows in the past and he openly admits that he likes guns and owns guns. I think, like you, that this was an honest interview and a good dialogue.
    Click to expand...
    How does Maher own guns when his admitted dope smoking makes him a prohibited person, especially under Obama BATFE change to 4473 that make this even more clearly a prohibition?

    Second Amendment and slavery comes up in a patronizing way, yet Mr. Noir was gentleman enough to avoid pointing out Maher himself is prohibited. and did you see both the one on one and the panel? maher did not challenge at all the endless spew of factually incorrect statements and invective by the gun ban supporter.

    What we can all agree on is that Noir, while missing a few points we might have made in hindsight, did a steller job of staying factual, staying on message and talking rationally and convincingly to the US political center which is where this issue will be decided.
     
    M

    MrNiceGuy

    Active Member
    Dec 9, 2013
    270
    spoon059 said:
    And the reason that North Vietnam still exists and that Al Sadr is still alive is because the Liberal Left couldn't stomach the true cost of war. War is bitter, war is horrible. I am not a proponent of war, but if it must be fought, it must be fought viciously. I doubt that the Liberal Left would be able to stomach the true cost of violent disarmament of our citizens.
    Click to expand...

    Understanding of course that the whole point is made moot by the fact that the vast majority of our military would be on our side in such a conflict. Quite a number of police would be as well. The rest? They'll follow rule number 1 of being a cop: everybody goes home.

    I sincerely hope we're able to sort out the problems of our country within the system set up by the Founding Fathers. If not, I also sincerely hope that any reformation of our government happens quickly and without loss of life, but I don't have a lot of faith in people in power giving it up quite that easily if it were to come to that. Ultimately, I have zero doubt that those on the side of liberty - particularly those who strongly support the principles of the US Constitution - would prevail in any altercation that descends to an actual fight. We have the courage of our convictions because we study and understand the lessons of history and our military is filled with patriots; the politicians therein are a small minority.
     
    Bob A

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,881
    It was annoying to listen to Maher tossing around comments about arming teachers, then dancing away from the topic before Noir could make a reasoned response. Maher did that several times, obviously playing to his audience rather than attempting to actually discuss an issue. When he brought up "loopholes" he again side-stepped Noir's attempt to call him on the topic, then made some sort of allusion to Noir's being armed - "I don't want to make you mad". Then Maher pulls that "Wild West" argument that is obviously flawed - what about the 40+ states that are Shall-issue? Then end the segment with few good points made by either side.

    It's nice to exhibit a laid-back attitude if you're an armed black man - no threat here - but not so laid-back that you let a cheap comic score points by not returning his lob.

    So I'm glad Noir is making inroads into mass media, but I think he could have done a better job.
     
    P

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Bob A said:
    So I'm glad Noir is making inroads into mass media, but I think he could have done a better job.
    Click to expand...

    Noir is a smart guy and knows the issues better than anyone save Ben Shapiro. However, it is Maher's show and he was going to dictate the direction of the conversation in both segments. I thought Noir held is own especially when he kept asking the female how to enforce what she wanted and she deflected over and over. He let a couple opportunities slip away, especially with private sales and gun shows. I follow Noir's youtube and NRA segments. I don't believe he has ever been on a panel like that, so not too bad for his first time.

    In the 1 on 1 final segment, he put Maher in his place with the irony of Noir being there.

    If Noir was white, Maher wouldn't have given him the respect he did. I hate the truth of the matter but the NRA needs to display the diversification of the membership. Intellectual diversified people like Noir and Okafor put the left on their heels. It is stupidly racial but that is where the left has taken the country and, right now, the NRA has a image problem. Maher said it and Noir didn't disagree that Noir isn't what the average non-gun owner thinks who the NRA members are. MSI understands this too. Just look at the first page of their site. Its full of racially diversified people. I've asked if they were members and was told they aren't. I don't even think they know their picture is being used on the site. That fact is testament to the need of diversification of 2A organizations. The NRA can't take that kind of risk because they would be ridiculed by the national press. I think bringing racially diversified people to the front is long overdue. Bringing the pink pistols into the fold is also long overdue. Especially after the Orlando night club massacre.

    Noir is extremely smart and educated. That's why I like him. I could care less what color anyone is or who they sleep with but the anti people do. Its the basis of their platforms. You have to take it away from them and Noir did exactly that with Maher and his panel.
     
    adit

    adit

    ReMember
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 20, 2013
    19,639
    DE
    Bob A said:
    It was annoying to listen to Maher tossing around comments about arming teachers, then dancing away from the topic before Noir could make a reasoned response. Maher did that several times, obviously playing to his audience rather than attempting to actually discuss an issue. When he brought up "loopholes" he again side-stepped Noir's attempt to call him on the topic, then made some sort of allusion to Noir's being armed - "I don't want to make you mad". Then Maher pulls that "Wild West" argument that is obviously flawed - what about the 40+ states that are Shall-issue? Then end the segment with few good points made by either side.

    It's nice to exhibit a laid-back attitude if you're an armed black man - no threat here - but not so laid-back that you let a cheap comic score points by not returning his lob.

    So I'm glad Noir is making inroads into mass media, but I think he could have done a better job.
    Click to expand...

    Anytime you are in one of these conversations and the other side calls it a loophole, they need to be immediately corrected that it is not a loophole, it is the law.
     
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