Can an employer not allow a firearm in a vehicle?

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  • fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Its not a legal issue its a company policy issue. If you dont follow company policy you can be fired. If they dont own the parking lot I dont see how they could enforce it though.

    Even if they are renting the parking lot, they can enforce it. Heck, the Howard County Public School Policy for employees states that employees must act "properly" even in places outside of the school (paraphrasing there). An employee must act properly at the super market, movie theater, on Facebook, etc., and HCPSS does not own any of those places, lease them, etc.

    Maryland is an employment at will state. So, unless there is an employment contract in place setting forth what the employee can and cannot be fired for, the employer can terminate employment at any time except for one of the protected reasons, like age, race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc. Don't think gun owner is a protected class.

    If the parking lot is part of the area rented/owned by the employer, and it is the employer's policy that firearms are not allowed on company grounds, then yes the gun owner can be fired without a problem if the gun owner, even with a wear and carry permit, brings a firearm onto company grounds.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Interesting point, but there are many things you can't prevent depending on the kind of property. If you have a business, you must allow all customers. (Hog's Breath Saloon - required to install handicapped features). Building, health, and alcohol enforcement.

    Not quite. There are a lot of members only places with biometric security, with an application for membership. Think high end cigar bars etc. You dont have to admit the public to have a business.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Go find somebody else to argue with. I was just showing some examples. Clearly you know everything.

    lol - you cannot answer his question, so you answer with that kind of response. You argue in favor of being able to carry on employer property when the employer specifically says no, but cannot provide anything that would legally prevent an employee from being fired in such a situation.

    Here is a partial answer:

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-employer-prohibit-me-keeping-gun-car-work.html

    Does Maryland have a "guns in the parking lot" law? Don't think so, but I learned something new today, so maybe this is a 2fer day. Somebody provide me with a pleasant surprise.

    Here we go, a list of states that have "guns in the parking lot" laws:

    https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandto...pages/guns-in-parking-lots-laws-by-state.aspx

    Maryland is not one of them. Maybe this is something that MSI, MSRPA, and PP should lobby for next session. Some balance between a person's right to self defense and an employer's property rights.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Not quite. There are a lot of members only places with biometric security, with an application for membership. Think high end cigar bars etc. You dont have to admit the public to have a business.

    I have a business. Try coming in the front door uninvited. Plus, the front door is usually locked. So is the back door, side door, and windows for that matter.
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    Not quite. There are a lot of members only places with biometric security, with an application for membership. Think high end cigar bars etc. You dont have to admit the public to have a business.

    Yes, what you say is true, but you can't discriminate based on the 7 immutable characteristics (or whatever the current list is).

    Point is you do not have unfettered ability to make all rules regarding your property.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    As listed by Fabs , Maryland does not have a statute on this subject .

    At a baseline , Employers have wide latitude to create Employee Policies/ Rules governing said : 1. While physically on Company Property ( owned, leased, or controled at minimum ) potentially at any time . 2. Anytime working / on the clock/ representing themselves as associated with Employer , regardless of physical location .
     

    sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    3,995
    Perry Hall
    Read you employee handbook...

    Their Parking Lot, Their Rules or you can be fired on the spot...

    Park your car on the street...
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Situations require a bit on common sense... weigh the risks and probability of being discovered if you violate their rules. If the worst consequence you face is getting fired and the odds are your vehicle will never be searched... risk is minimal in my book. I'd rather have my get-home plan the the incremental increase in job security. Getting fired isn't the end of the world.
     

    cantstop

    Pentultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2012
    8,161
    MD
    Many moons ago, I use to work at a place with a gated parking lot with a policy that all cars and packages were subject to search (to keep down theft). You had to pass by a guard shack on your way in and out. Unless you work at a place like this, no one is going to search your car. If your boss wants to search you or your car, you might as well get a new job because you are about to be fired.
     

    PapiBarcelona

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2011
    7,343
    You should probably find a new job anyway if your boss is outside every morning searching through employee cars.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    One problem with these policies for those that can carry is that you would end up disarmed from the time you leave your house till the time you get back. It extends far beyond their "property". IMO your vehicle is your property, they have no right to say what you can or cannot have in your car, especially if it's not visible from the outside.

    You are wrong, but okay. As it is their personal property, they can. Yes, what you mention is the consequence. I work for the feds and can’t have a firearm in my vehicle period because I have to park on federal property.

    There it is straight up the law.

    For a private employer if it is company policy they have every legal right to terminate you if they have a policy or you’ve been told you cannot have a firearm on company property (in a vehicle or not). They can also tell you to leave if they find out and if you refuse you can be arrested and charged with trespassing.

    What is right and what is allowable by law are two different things. If an employer can enforce a dress code you can bet they can enforce not having a firearm on their property.

    You also get in to don’t ask, don’t tell. If you are carrying and decide to go that route, better make sure it stays locked up and out of sight before you arrive at your employer. Also figure out what you are going to do and say if your vehicle ever gets broken in to. Would suck to have to report that to police and they give a copy of the police report to your employer...
     

    tmo8320

    Active Member
    Mar 31, 2019
    296
    You are wrong, but okay. As it is their personal property, they can. Yes, what you mention is the consequence. I work for the feds and can’t have a firearm in my vehicle period because I have to park on federal property.

    There it is straight up the law.

    For a private employer if it is company policy they have every legal right to terminate you if they have a policy or you’ve been told you cannot have a firearm on company property (in a vehicle or not). They can also tell you to leave if they find out and if you refuse you can be arrested and charged with trespassing.

    What is right and what is allowable by law are two different things. If an employer can enforce a dress code you can bet they can enforce not having a firearm on their property.

    You also get in to don’t ask, don’t tell. If you are carrying and decide to go that route, better make sure it stays locked up and out of sight before you arrive at your employer. Also figure out what you are going to do and say if your vehicle ever gets broken in to. Would suck to have to report that to police and they give a copy of the police report to your employer...

    Oh man - yeah. Literally all of what you just said. Especially if you are a Fed / work with Feds...
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    Can a company in Maryland not allow its employees to have a legal firearm locked in their vehicles in the parking lot? The employee in question does have a wear carry permit in Maryland.

    Everybody has their own opinion, here's mine.

    If the company owns the building AND the parking lot they can set any policy they wish. Just like you can choose to prohibit ( or require :) ) visitors from bringing firearms onto your owned property.

    If the company LEASES the office space and HAS USE of the parking lot, there would need to be a stated policy by the parking lot owner (the landlord). I have never seen a commercial office lease that extends to a shared parking lot. On some occasions the company may rent parking spaces as a part of their leasehold ( say to park a fleet of shared company vehicles) and pay additional rent. Of course, the act of inquiring of the landlord as to their policy may encourage them to make a change not to your liking. I WOULD expect that if a landlord had a firearms prohibition on their shared parking lot, they would be expected to post signs to that effect in order for the policy to be enforceable.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Everybody has their own opinion, here's mine.

    If the company owns the building AND the parking lot they can set any policy they wish. Just like you can choose to prohibit ( or require :) ) visitors from bringing firearms onto your owned property.

    If the company LEASES the office space and HAS USE of the parking lot, there would need to be a stated policy by the parking lot owner (the landlord). I have never seen a commercial office lease that extends to a shared parking lot. On some occasions the company may rent parking spaces as a part of their leasehold ( say to park a fleet of shared company vehicles) and pay additional rent. Of course, the act of inquiring of the landlord as to their policy may encourage them to make a change not to your liking. I WOULD expect that if a landlord had a firearms prohibition on their shared parking lot, they would be expected to post signs to that effect in order for the policy to be enforceable.

    Yeah, you are wrong. The employer can require certain behavior of its employees as a condition of employment, as long as it is not discriminatory against one of the protected classes. Being a firearm owner is not a protected class yet, which sucks. So, the employer could actually fire you just for being a gun owner if the employment is "at will".
     

    PapiBarcelona

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2011
    7,343
    Pretty much the only way a local government employee teacher gets fired up my way is if their position is cut through funding/budget, criminal charge, or for some reason the teacher completely bombs their X amount of supervisor observations per year, but you'd have be way past incredibly horrible to fail the observations.

    Not sure how many teachers bomb out the observations, probably really really rare. Tenured teachers have even less observations than non tenured.
     
    Last edited:

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    An employer can regulate your behavior at work and while representing the company to the public. They can't regulate your behavior on your time. According to your reasoning they cold fire you because they didn't like the carpet you selected in your living room.
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    An employer can regulate your behavior at work and while representing the company to the public. They can't regulate your behavior on your time. According to your reasoning they cold fire you because they didn't like the carpet you selected in your living room.

    As we all know, Maryland is a hire/fire at will state. Technically they don't need a reason to let anyone go. However, if dismissing an employee its be to have documentation of sub par performance, as everyone is "sue happy" here.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    An employer can regulate your behavior at work and while representing the company to the public. They can't regulate your behavior on your time. According to your reasoning they cold fire you because they didn't like the carpet you selected in your living room.

    they can if you let them. Many in health care are now required to cease tobacco use 24/7 and evidently people are subject to random testing.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    As we all know, Maryland is a hire/fire at will state. Technically they don't need a reason to let anyone go. However, if dismissing an employee its be to have documentation of sub par performance, as everyone is "sue happy" here.


    This is more to do with unemployment insurance premiums that companies pay. Most companies now "lay off" people if they find a "problem" employee.
     

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