357 sig over penetration?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    The air marshalls and secret service are said to use them. Gold dots? What’s the down side to this round via over penetration, and why would the air marshalls use it in a crowded venue if this was the case? I shoot mine in a g33 and find it faster back on target than my g27. Or at least i imagine that to be the case.
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,787
    The air marshalls and secret service are said to use them. Gold dots? What’s the down side to this round via over penetration, and why would the air marshalls use it in a crowded venue if this was the case? I shoot mine in a g33 and find it faster back on target than my g27. Or at least i imagine that to be the case.

    A bit off topic but do you find yours louder?

    I find the recoil much less in my 31C/32C vs 22C/23C. Shot my 27C side by side with a 27 just for comparison yesterday, felt recoil about 1/3 less.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    A bit off topic but do you find yours louder?

    I find the recoil much less in my 31C/32C vs 22C/23C. Shot my 27C side by side with a 27 just for comparison yesterday, felt recoil about 1/3 less.

    I have shot it a lot, inside and out, but always with ears. I noticed no noise difference. Yesterday a guy was shooting a 10” ar about 25’ from me ( outside) and with ears, it made a lovely sound.
    Recoil is fine, but after a couple of boxes of 357 i sometimes put a lone wolf 9mm barrel and 9 mag and shoot 124 gr range ammo and then you really notice the diff.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    The air marshalls and secret service are said to use them. Gold dots? What’s the down side to this round via over penetration, and why would the air marshalls use it in a crowded venue if this was the case?.

    while we don't want over-penetration (hitting the good guy behind the bad guy, or perhaps even worse, hitting the fuselage), maybe in their case, reducing the chance of under-penetration (and a bad guy still shooting or pulling a grenade pin or bomb trigger) is worth the risk of over-penetration?

    that said, i have no idea what the gel or other penetration tests show between basic 9mm, +p+ and 357 sig.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    The usual "gripes" about ( such high vel medium bores , of various ctg cases , but similar velocities, with jhp ) is alledging Under penetration .
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    or perhaps even worse, hitting the fuselage)

    Poking a hole in the fuselage is not a big deal. The cabin outflow valve is about the size of a normal door.

    The pressurization system pumps WAY more air into the cabin than needed. The max pressurization limit is a limit of the fuselage to not pop, not because of amount of air.

    Yes, there is a potential to poke a hole in something that is more critical. But just a hole in the fuselage is not a huge issue.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    When 9/11 happened and the FAM service ramped up, it was retired agents who became new Directors and Heads of the agency.
    It was their fault we got the P229 in 357 Sig. They already had the contacts and a blank check. So it was done.
    No special testing, rhyme or reason the round was chosen. It's just what "they carried when they did the job".
    It is indeed the flattest traveling, most accurate round out to 100 yards that I know of. Not that that is needed, especially in a plane.
    That being said, every other country FAMs use 9mm.
    The 229 is a great pistol, but a terrible one for concealed carry. Way too big/ heavy. We should have had G19s or something similar.
    I've never had a FTF with a .357 round. I believe the tapered shape is the reason why.
    Over penetration isn't a problem in the side of the fuselage. An airplane is a controlled leak. It sure can make up for what goes through that hole. Another thing is that the pilots would get the plane down to 10k in no time where we can all enjoy the 14.7 psi and relax :)
    Shooting directly into the floor could pose a problem though. There's more important plane controlling stuff going on under there.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    When 9/11 happened and the FAM service ramped up, it was retired agents who became new Directors and Heads of the agency.
    It was their fault we got the P229 in 357 Sig. They already had the contacts and a blank check. So it was done.
    No special testing, rhyme or reason the round was chosen. It's just what "they carried when they did the job".
    It is indeed the flattest traveling, most accurate round out to 100 yards that I know of. Not that that is needed, especially in a plane.
    That being said, every other country FAMs use 9mm.
    The 229 is a great pistol, but a terrible one for concealed carry. Way too big/ heavy. We should have had G19s or something similar.
    I've never had a FTF with a .357 round. I believe the tapered shape is the reason why.
    Over penetration isn't a problem in the side of the fuselage. An airplane is a controlled leak. It sure can make up for what goes through that hole. Another thing is that the pilots would get the plane down to 10k in no time where we can all enjoy the 14.7 psi and relax :)
    Shooting directly into the floor could pose a problem though. There's more important plane controlling stuff going on under there.

    And things like fuel tanks. :D

    Oh, pressure at 10K is 10.1 psi, but still enough to supply enough O2, to the brain. Actually you are good up to about 12.5K for most people, and even 15K for up to 30 minutes.
     

    Kagetsu

    Active Member
    Feb 4, 2009
    448
    And things like fuel tanks. :D

    Oh, pressure at 10K is 10.1 psi, but still enough to supply enough O2, to the brain. Actually you are good up to about 12.5K for most people, and even 15K for up to 30 minutes.
    This sounds familiar. I have a commercial certificate and my double I. Those are standard altitudes for o2 use for pilots and available for passengers. But yes, a few bullet holes won't cause a mass decompression. Even though jets are above A18000 most of the time.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    This sounds familiar. I have a commercial certificate and my double I. Those are standard altitudes for o2 use for pilots and available for passengers. But yes, a few bullet holes won't cause a mass decompression. Even though jets are above A18000 most of the time.

    Yeap, that is where I got my numbers.

    Some people are OK even higher. I used to be.

    BTW Commercial ASMEL, RH, G and CFI-ASE, IA, RH, G. And Private - ASES :D
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    I was confirming what the other poster stated.



    Did you do altitude chamber rides?
    Didn't need to when it comes down to getting an ied down to altitude.
    10/11k feet is the magic number.

    Why do you always have to parse everything and everyone's posts to the Nth degree?
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Didn't need to when it comes down to getting an ied down to altitude.
    10/11k feet is the magic number.

    Why do you always have to parse everything and everyone's posts to the Nth degree?

    Why do you have to do so also?

    10K feet is the military level where you need to go on O2. For civilian, there are different limits. For flight crew, over 12,500 for more than 30 minutes, or over 14,000 for any amount of time. For passengers, O2 is only required over 15,000 feet.

    So 10K is NOT a magic number.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,930
    Messages
    7,259,487
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom