Buying from a private seller outside the state

Thanks for all the advice! Good lord...how complicated! I need to move to VA. LOL. Maybe I'll just have him mail it to an FFL then. Thanks!

Update: Ok, he has a gun permit so its a legal gun. He was thinking of bringing it down to MD during one of his many trips here and then we would goto the MSP barracks to register it after I inspect the gun. I guess during the 7 day waiting period he would have to return back to NYC and I'd take possession after I get "cleared" in which he'd probably have to bring it down again on his next trip. Its still a pain...LOL. That XD groupbuy is looking beter and better

If the seller is from out of state (non MD resident) you MUST use an FFL. The State Police thing is for MD to MD transfers only ... if I remember correctly.

DizzyV6P said:

Thanks for all the advice! Good lord...how complicated! I need to move to VA. LOL. Maybe I'll just have him mail it to an FFL then. Thanks!

Update: Ok, he has a gun permit so its a legal gun. He was thinking of bringing it down to MD during one of his many trips here and then we would goto the MSP barracks to register it after I inspect the gun. I guess during the 7 day waiting period he would have to return back to NYC and I'd take possession after I get "cleared" in which he'd probably have to bring it down again on his next trip. Its still a pain...LOL. That XD groupbuy is looking beter and better

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I'm telling you it would be easier to just have him mail it to a local FFL down here and have him do the transfer for you. Who knows what laws he might be breaking by transporting it by car from NY to MD. Just get an FFL here locally and have your friend mail it directly to him via FedEx and you should be good to go.

justshoot said:

If the seller is from out of state (non MD resident) you MUST use an FFL. The State Police thing is for MD to MD transfers only ... if I remember correctly.

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Good point.

just remember snookie selling guns in a dark alley out of the back of his impala rolling on 20inch rims is never a good transaction....

wilcam47 said:

just remember snookie selling guns in a dark alley out of the back of his impala rolling on 20inch rims is never a good transaction....

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zoostation said:

I understand the point and I'm familiar with the decision, but I think it's a very bad idea to "loan" it to the buyer before the paperwork comes back. Since you've already been to the barracks and stated in writing your intent to do a permanent transfer, that would be a difficult one to make a judge believe if Mr. Murphy intervened and there was a problem before the 7-days was up. It's an obvious subterfuge and not one that would work IMHO.

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Big +1. It would be hard to argue that the person is just checking it out to see if he wants to buy it after $ has changed hands and the paperwork has been submitted to MSP.

CharlieFoxtrot said:

Big +1. It would be hard to argue that the person is just checking it out to see if he wants to buy it after $ has changed hands and the paperwork has been submitted to MSP.

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If I were to argue this to a judge out of desperation I would say that since the transaction/transfer is not complete or official untill the final form is submitted to the state and since a transfer can be cancelled untill then, it was to let them try it out before final commitment.

....but I would never want to be in a position to have to explain it to the judge in the first place though, but it makes sense in a way. Think about if someone took ownership of the gun on the 8th day and then finds out it is damaged or will not work. If they want their money back they have to go through the transfer process again and wait another seven days agter paying a ten dollar fee. Also, if the first owner fails a subsequent background check they cannot take the handgun back. I would tell the judge it was to avoid risking having to face loss or further complication.

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall seeing that FTF transfers are illegal in NY, and to ship a gun out of state requires taking it to a FFL dealer in NY, then having him ship it to an FFL dealer in the other state. This is done to ensure proper change of registration and get the gun "off the books" in NY.

The guys who quoted the Federal law are correct, but we can't forget that state and local laws have to be complied with also. Sure it will cost money, but if either party is caught violating the law, the cost will be a lot greater, believe me.

Jim

Jim Keenan said:

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall seeing that FTF transfers are illegal in NY, and to ship a gun out of state requires taking it to a FFL dealer in NY, then having him ship it to an FFL dealer in the other state. This is done to ensure proper change of registration and get the gun "off the books" in NY.

The guys who quoted the Federal law are correct, but we can't forget that state and local laws have to be complied with also. Sure it will cost money, but if either party is caught violating the law, the cost will be a lot greater, believe me.

Jim

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If I read it right, the NRA's "state laws" page says they can cancell registration by just notifying the licensing officer.

A license to carry or posses a pistol or revolver is
required to purchase a handgun. (See HANDGUNS-
POSSESSION and CARRY) Elsewhere than the City of
New York, a person licensed to carry or possess a pistol or
revolver may apply at any time to the licensing officer in
the county of their residence for amendment of his or her
license to include one or more such handguns or to cancel
a handgun held under the license.

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http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NYSL.pdf
Not sure if there are other processes involved because the page is very brief on the subject.

Jim Keenan said:

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall seeing that FTF transfers are illegal in NY, and to ship a gun out of state requires taking it to a FFL dealer in NY, then having him ship it to an FFL dealer in the other state. This is done to ensure proper change of registration and get the gun "off the books" in NY.

The guys who quoted the Federal law are correct, but we can't forget that state and local laws have to be complied with also. Sure it will cost money, but if either party is caught violating the law, the cost will be a lot greater, believe me.

Jim

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You are correct and in fact after the seller went to do more research on it, he raised the price on me (grrrr) so I declined to purchase. So now I'm waiting on the XDM or another XD group buy from Dan.

Hi, Novus Collectus,

The law you quoted doesn't say the gun registration can be cancelled by "notifying" the licensing officer, but that the license holder can "apply to" the licensing officer, which implies an application and subsequent permission, not just a notification. Also, I seem to recall that there is sort of a two step process in NY. The gun must be registered with the state before it can be designated on a new or existing license to own or carry; that designation is not the actual registration. If I am wrong on this, I am perfectly willing to be corrected, but NY gun laws make MD's look simple and reasonable.

Jim

I left NY in '97 and when I left I had a valid pistol permit. Not sure how much has changed but at that time each county administered the permit system for the state. I lived in Erie County, Buffalo area. There is a county judge who is somehow assigned to oversee and sign off on the applications. When I got my permit at the age of 19 I had to have an interview with that judge. Yes, it is a little scary. I believe that judge is the "licensing officer" mentioned above. I do know that they can issue an order to revoke a permit.

When one was to buy a handgun, you had to have a valid permit in hand. You would go to the FFL pick out a gun, pay usually a deposit and get a receipt with all of the gun's info on it. Caliber/barrel length/type (revolver or semi auto or single shot)/serial number. Take the receipt to county hall with several $$ and tell them that you wanted to add the gun to your permit. They give you a receipt for the fee, take your permit and the dealer receipt and you wait anywhere from three minutes to 30 minutes. (Volume and staff levels cause the wait time.) After they type everything up they call your name and then give you your permit, receipt and what is called a "Purchase Coupon". You then can go and pick the gun up. When you pick the gun up you finish the 4473 and give the FFL the purchase coupon. They also usually want to visually verify that the gun was added to the permit and check that they typed the serial number correctly. I think because of the permit system a NICS call is not needed. However I did have to wait after the Brady Bill was passed for them to do an additional background check before I could get that gun. After that my permit was stamped with the year and date of the check and it would have been good for five more years. Several times I was able to go buy a gun, get to county hall and then get back to the dealer in like 90 minutes. No waiting for the paperwork each time.

Now getting a permit can be interesting but I had no issues at 19 back in '80 getting my permit.

I don't believe that handguns must be registered with the state before they are sold, only when you go to get the gun added to a permit.