Average Shooter with AR15 and TA11 at 100 Yards

ATTom · Dec 12, 2011

What should an average shooter with an AR-15 and a TA11 ACOG with crosshair recticle be able to achieve group wise at 100 yards? Should 1 moa be doable by an average shooter?
Thanks,
Tom

Cetmeman · Dec 12, 2011

At a bench or what?

ATTom · Dec 12, 2011

Benched.

Blue Falcon · Dec 12, 2011

It all depends on the gun, ammo and even more importantly the shooter.

steves1911 · Dec 12, 2011

Only a few ar15 out there that shoot true moa. If this is a short barrel m4 type 2 moa is more like it. Are you using match ammo? Green tip is typically 2 or more moa no matter what its in.

Dave91 · Dec 12, 2011

Like everyone else above me said, a lot of it comes down to a variety of factors (optics, ammo, rifle type, your personal skill level) but with a good rifle and good optics you should be able to dial right in at 100 yards and get some nice groupings.

Russ D · Dec 12, 2011

With hand loads very few of the Ars I've tested couldn't be at 1moa or close. With factory ammo 1 to 2 moa is more realistic. I've seen guns shoot well under moa with handloads and go to about 3moa with factory stuff.

mayor_quimby · Dec 12, 2011

im average... here you go at a bench.... @100 Yards

75gr BTHP Hornady
ACOG TA31A
BCM BFH 16" Mid Length Upper

ATTom · Dec 12, 2011

My only other point of reference is scarcqb. He has stated in thread that his 6920 with eotech and 3xI magnifier can do moa with 62 grain wolf. But I think he is an exceptionally good shot.

new_shooter · Dec 12, 2011

A lot of variables there. If I had to guess (and put up a straw man figure for others to knock about) I'd say the weapon would vary from 1 to 3 MOA, and an average shooter would add his own variance to that, lets call that another 2 MOA. So that's 5 MOA, which at 100 yards is a grouping about 5 inches across?

Weapon variance is what others said above. Differences in ammo between hand loads and factory, how well tuned the weapon itself is.

Estimated variance for an 'average' shooter is going to be a wide range, as I don't think there IS an average shooter. Are you talking the average of all people, including those who've never shot a gun? Only those who have? Only people with training? Military training? Average amongst active competition shooters?

davsco · Dec 12, 2011

scope, ammo and rifle (and trigger) all matter, as of course does the shooter.

just took my 3 AR's to range saturday. all 5 shot groups, all at 100:

armalite carbine with non-magnified eotech shooting xm193 i had 2.5".

lwrc with 1-4 trijicon green dot, black hills 75 hp had 2". with xm193 had 2.5".

armalite m15a4T, black hills 75hp, trijicon 2.5-10 green dot had sub 1".

didn't shoot it this weekend, but with my dpms lr-308 and nightforce 5.5-22x56, and fed 168 gold medal, i get sub moa (3 shot groups) all the way out to 600. sure my m15T would do this, at least to 300, if i put this scope on it.

love the trijicons, the green (or other color) dots give super fast target acquisition for tactical or timed competitive events, but the dots do cover up the target bullseye so hitting gnats or sub-moa isn't really expected. with all 3 of the AR's i was ringing a steel plate at 250yds a few weeks ago without issue.

Russ D · Dec 12, 2011

I've had two board members come to me in the last few years complaining about their group size with basic no frills Ar's. Both M4 clones with low power optics. Both guns were giving 3 to 4 moa with standard factory ammo. I simply handed both guys a box of handloads and let them shoot their rifles with my handloads. I would consider both better than average shooters but these were basic guns with crappy triggers. Both guys shot multiple sub moa groups instantly. They were no longer thinking about changin barrels but planning on upgrading their reloading capapbility. With the 5.56 chamber you lose some accuracy for being able to feed any and all 556 ammo. You can get that back with good handloads or just take my advice and get Wylde chambered barrels if you care about group size.

SCARCQB · Dec 12, 2011

ATTom said:
My only other point of reference is scarcqb. He has stated in thread that his 6920 with eotech and 3xI magnifier can do moa with 62 grain wolf. But I think he is an exceptionally good shot.

I'm an average shooter.. But you've seen/ experienced firsthand what the 6920 can do with an aimpoint( SP6920, aimpoint, stock trigger). ( you vaporized 1" targets at 110 yards with consistency, +good coaching and feedback). Be consistent, practice the fundamentals of marksmanship and the AR with good optics/ ammo is up to the task.

A lot of deviations come from the shooter, but most attribute that to equipment. An acceptable excuse, if you need one.

with that said, I still think that most set-up can deliver more accuracy, than what the shooter is capable of.

At Myrtle grove.. 22 shooters ( regulars) can hit 40mm paintballs at the berm. These shots are made with bulk ammo and stock guns. Lx1x shot a cicada perched on a blade of grass at 100 yards. That is not suppose to happen,, some may say its pure BS... but for those that shoot with us. It is factual. No brag, just facts.

PS: Its the Marlboro lights and newports that we smoke.... most of us can work well with reduced oxygen levels and can hold our breath longer for that shot.

Below:
M1A ( 308) smiley face on a 3" target at 100 meters ( M1A EBR, Malaysian Surplus ammo, 16X magnification)

jonnyl · Dec 12, 2011

I was trying to determine a couple weeks ago how much variation there was in ammo while keeping other things (shooter and rifle) consistent. I'm not sure what "average" is, but I'm not very experienced and am working on improving, but these were the groups I got with a couple different types of ammo. (FYI, my barrel is a White Oak 18" with a Wylde chamber)..

lx1x · Dec 12, 2011

jonnyl said:
I was trying to determine a couple weeks ago how much variation there was in ammo while keeping other things (shooter and rifle) consistent. I'm not sure what "average" is, but I'm not very experienced and am working on improving, but these were the groups I got with a couple different types of ammo. (FYI, my barrel is a White Oak 18" with a Wylde chamber)..

those are not bad!

it just depends who you talking too.. avarage to one person could be an expert with another. or cant hit a broad side of a barn w/ yet another.

jonnyl · Dec 12, 2011

lx1x said:
those are not bad!

it just depends who you talking too.. avarage to one person could be an expert with another. or cant hit a broad side of a barn w/ yet another.

Thanks! If I can keep from embarrassing myself while staying safe, I'm happy!

BradMacc82 · Dec 12, 2011

SCARCQB said:
Lx1x shot a cicada perched on a blade of grass at 100 yards. That is not suppose to happen,, some may say its pure BS... but for those that shoot with us. It is factual. No brag, just facts.

PS: Its the Marlboro lights and newports that we smoke.... most of us can work well with reduced oxygen levels and can hold our breath longer for that shot.

^^^This

Newport light also works well. I was there the day Lx1x got the cicada, it was the talk of the tables for that day. It was a hell of a shot. :thumbsup:

lx1x · Dec 12, 2011

jonnyl said:
Thanks! If I can keep from embarrassing myself while staying safe, I'm happy!

thats the key right there..

guthook · Dec 12, 2011

BradMacc82 said:
^^^This

Newport light also works well. I was there the day Lx1x got the cicada, it was the talk of the tables for that day. It was a hell of a shot.

He was cheating!!! With good ammo. :lol2:

BlueHeeler · Dec 12, 2011

jonnyl said:
Thanks! If I can keep from embarrassing myself while staying safe, I'm happy!

You are not going to embarrass yourself. No one cares what groups other people are shooting. There are too many variables to tell anything. Focus on improving your own skill and keep your eyes on your own paper so to speak.

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