Renewal Wear&Carry Going In. Should I request a change?

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  • magnetic1

    Active Member
    Jun 21, 2013
    415
    Montgomery County
    I just completed my renewal course and now ready to submit. However, I am on the fence on requesting for restrictions to be removed. Im scared it will needlessly delay my application and will end up in a black hole or worse, piss MSP off and they deny my renewal altogether!

    Thoughts?

    Update: That renewal was FAST. Mailed 7/25. Check cashed 7/1. New permit in the mail today 7/16.

    They allowed me to add another business I own. My letter requested restrictions removed because between business A and B or if I made a stop after leaving business A/B, a criminal couldnt distinguish when I was officially conducting business and I had needed a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger. I stated business B brought me out of state a lot and I had valid permits outside the states that surround MD and did not want to become a felon if stopped.

    So basically my new restriction is "valid only between residence and ALL businesses owned by (me) or while actively involved in financial business transactions as owner of the same..."

    So in effect, nothing really changed unless my business becomes walking around all day long :P
     
    Last edited:

    montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    I just completed my renewal course and now ready to submit. However, I am on the fence on requesting for restrictions to be removed. Im scared it will needlessly delay my application and will end up in a black hole or worse, piss MSP off and they deny my renewal altogether!

    Thoughts?

    Request the renewal, then submit a letter to modify. No need to request modification along with the renewal.
     

    Chris

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jun 21, 2005
    2,128
    Cecil Co, Maryland
    Or if you can show that your restrictions no longer fit your business activities and that you need to have them changed. You could do that in the box of duties with a cover letter stating changes. With that said "montoya32" has the latest contact with MSP for this. My last contact with them was a letter when my restriction was changed to "while actively involved in financial transactions as President of same" ? I asked "What does that mean?" never got an answer. Chris
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,662
    I just completed my renewal course and now ready to submit. However, I am on the fence on requesting for restrictions to be removed. Im scared it will needlessly delay my application and will end up in a black hole or worse, piss MSP off and they deny my renewal altogether!

    Thoughts?

    You shouldn't be afraid of asking a state emplyee to do their job. You pay them.
     

    6pack

    MSI BOD Member
    Apr 2, 2012
    2,458
    Eldersburg, MD
    I am about to renew also. I'm putting in my normal G&S stuff, but am also asking for no restrictions based on self defense. We'll see what happens.
     

    Jaybeez

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Patriot Picket
    May 30, 2006
    6,392
    Darlington MD
    this month? if it were me, i would renew, and see what restrictions you end up with in 90 days.
     

    6pack

    MSI BOD Member
    Apr 2, 2012
    2,458
    Eldersburg, MD
    Does anyone know how/where to get a print out of crimes is various areas of the State (maybe by County)? I want to include this to see if they ignore my self defense claim, but all I seem to find are interactive maps that I can't print out.
     

    magnetic1

    Active Member
    Jun 21, 2013
    415
    Montgomery County
    just mailed in w/ a letter that explained expanded duties for current business as well as adding information and documents for a second business I have. We'll see what happens in a few weeks I suppose
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,434
    Does anyone know how/where to get a print out of crimes is various areas of the State (maybe by County)? I want to include this to see if they ignore my self defense claim, but all I seem to find are interactive maps that I can't print out.

    Living in a high crime area is not considered G&S. It is actually sited somewhere.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,775
    In this case State Employees are paid to *process* your pplication , not for giving you the specific outcome you hope for. ( Sorry ! Couldn't resist the set up .)


    As to the OP's serious inquiry : We're not you , we don't know the current wording of restrictions , nor the day to day tcticl reality of your situation.

    The status quo may or may not be evolving thru HPRB rulings or future public or behing the scenes Policy Directives. My crystal ball is broken , and can't tell me what or when. Your coin toss is as valid as anyone elses.

    That said , to best hedge your bets bsic renewal first , and request modifications later would minimize potential of blowbck.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    I just completed my renewal course and now ready to submit. However, I am on the fence on requesting for restrictions to be removed. Im scared it will needlessly delay my application and will end up in a black hole or worse, piss MSP off and they deny my renewal altogether!

    Thoughts?


    Very understandable.

    Many Mdsp and other police agencies do read these forums. Many/most because they are interested in firearms and shooting sports; just like the rest of us. In fact 'they' are us, this forum represents / hosts comments from the entire spectrum.

    There should be no restrictions for those that have a carry permit. None.

    The restrictions that are placed vary tremendously, they are arbitrary (meaning two people with nearly identical situations may have different or no restrictions), and capricious (meaning any restriction does not help, it only harms you by causing confusion or limits your ability to carry).

    Any administrator reading this knows two things for certain:

    1) Maryland refuses to define what "Good and substantial" means. This is done deliberately, despite many well meaning officers and legislators efforts to fix the problem. "We know it when we see it" is the catch phrase of tyrants and tools.

    2) When you are permitted to carry a gun to defend yourself, but deny others (law abiding, non-restricted) that same basic right you are a hypocrite. You are in direct violation of the U.S. Constitution, and have become part of the problem. There is a heavy weight and consequence to this action.

    I know people who go through the very difficult and expensive process of requesting a permit knowing they will almost certainly be denied; because if they are ever harmed, they now have legal basis to sue the state and the individual officers who claim they were just following orders when they denied your Constitutionally protected rights.

    I once disagreed with the concept of suing our own brothers that put on the uniform to protect and serve us. I know many that refuse to participate in the pattern of corruption that has been heaped on this once great state. But those that do, some ignorantly and gleefully; I have no more sympathy for.
     

    magnetic1

    Active Member
    Jun 21, 2013
    415
    Montgomery County
    Update: That renewal was FAST. Mailed 7/25. Check cashed 7/1. New permit in the mail today 7/16.

    They allowed me to add another business I own. My letter requested restrictions removed because between business A and B or if I made a stop after leaving business A/B, a criminal couldnt distinguish when I was officially conducting business and I had needed a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger. I stated business B brought me out of state a lot and I had valid permits outside the states that surround MD and did not want to become a felon if stopped.

    So basically my new restriction is "valid only between residence and ALL businesses owned by (me) or while actively involved in financial business transactions as owner of the same..."

    So in effect, nothing really changed unless my business becomes walking around all day long :P
     

    mxrider

    Former MSI Treasurer
    Aug 20, 2012
    3,045
    Edgewater, MD
    Living in a high crime area is not considered G&S. It is actually sited somewhere.

    I believe, and I'm not 100% certain, that there is nothing in COMAR regarding this. This has become an interpretation of the MSP using Scherr and Snowden as their guidance. Since both of these cases were based upon a court interpretation that the 2A does not apply to states, these SHOULD NOT be used any longer and the Woolard decision, if any, should be used to guide their decision based upon a "Palpable Need".
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    I just completed my renewal course and now ready to submit. However, I am on the fence on requesting for restrictions to be removed. Im scared it will needlessly delay my application and will end up in a black hole or worse, piss MSP off and they deny my renewal altogether!

    Thoughts?

    I am in the same boat and asked for the removal of my restraints. A delay won't hurt you as long as they receive the application for renewal at least 15 days before the date the existing permit expires. If so, then the permit remains in effect. See MD Code, State Government, § 10-226 Attached. That's why the permit says in red ink that the officer should not arrest for an expired permit before contacting the MSP. As for pissing them off, you have to assume that they will handle the request in accordance with their office policy. Being pissed off is not in the policy
     

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    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    Not always. They have been known to change or add restrictions on their own.

    Please reference one such case where a renewal was for the same reasons as the original and the restrictions were changed without being requested.

    The only instance I have run into was several years ago when they changed the boiler plate wording for businesses and now every Tom, Dick and Harry gets the same wording and if the reasons for the renewal change, then the wording for the restriction will be worded according to that change.
     

    rambling_one

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    6,714
    Bowie, MD
    Does anyone know how/where to get a print out of crimes is various areas of the State (maybe by County)? I want to include this to see if they ignore my self defense claim, but all I seem to find are interactive maps that I can't print out.

    I googled PG, Balto County and Bowie; got crime stat hits for each. Try the police web site in your area. It worked for me.
     

    montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    Please reference one such case where a renewal was for the same reasons as the original and the restrictions were changed without being requested.



    The only instance I have run into was several years ago when they changed the boiler plate wording for businesses and now every Tom, Dick and Harry gets the same wording and if the reasons for the renewal change, then the wording for the restriction will be worded according to that change.


    There is someone on the boards here fighting this right now. Restrictions changed at his time of renewal.
     

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